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Author Topic: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent  (Read 27545 times)

gss

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2011, 10:07:36 am »

So let me get this straight........(and please correct me if I'm wrong).

If you're part of the club that owns an H1 or H2, Hasselblad will now 'open' the system for you to keep using Phase backs, but if you're not, well then too bad, you have to buy the closed Hassy product?

Am I getting this right?

If true, this is preposterous. If I have never wished death upon a camera company until now....but, wow.

- N.

I can't imagine how you got that impression.  It appears to me that they are offering a trade-in for current H/H2/H2F cameras, and have not yet mentioned the price without trade-in.  They haven't even officially announced anything; it seems early to wish for their demise.
To venture a guess, the trade-in will probably be worth around $2000.  If one really wished to trade in an H3  or H4 body for that sum, they might accommodate.

Well, I was completely and utterly wrong in my response above.  My apologies.

It seems that Hasselblad is determined to shoot itself in the foot on this.

Can I buy the new H4X body without a trade in?
The new H4X camera is designed to upgrade the functionality of the current H1, H2 and H2F camera users only. To exchange the new camera it is required that the old H1/H2/H2F camera is returned to Hasselblad. It will not be possible to buy this camera, but only trade-in. If you are an H3D customer, you can not exchange that camera for a new H4X trade-in camera.

http://hasselbladusa.com/promotions/h4x-questions-and-answers.aspx

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hubell

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2011, 10:29:17 am »

So let me get this straight........(and please correct me if I'm wrong).

If you're part of the club that owns an H1 or H2, Hasselblad will now 'open' the system for you to keep using Phase backs, but if you're not, well then too bad, you have to buy the closed Hassy product?

Am I getting this right?

If true, this is preposterous. If I have never wished death upon a camera company until now....but, wow.

- N.

You seem to want to join the club but feel challenged in finding an H1 or H2 to trade in on an H4X. If so, I can help as I have a spare H1 that I can offer to you at a good price.

Josef Isayo

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2011, 12:27:01 pm »

I'd be angry too if I had to shoot with the Mamiya DF.

amsp

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2011, 02:57:50 pm »

Can I buy the new H4X body without a trade in?
The new H4X camera is designed to upgrade the functionality of the current H1, H2 and H2F camera users only. To exchange the new camera it is required that the old H1/H2/H2F camera is returned to Hasselblad. It will not be possible to buy this camera, but only trade-in. If you are an H3D customer, you can not exchange that camera for a new H4X trade-in camera.

http://hasselbladusa.com/promotions/h4x-questions-and-answers.aspx

You have got to be kidding me right? This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, when did Hasselblad become so anti-photographers? Victor must be rolling in his grave right now.
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Nick-T

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2011, 03:24:16 pm »

I'd say the new owners took over and said something along the lines of - you did WHAT?

No the idea came from an existing Hasselblad employee and had been discussed well before the new owners came on board.

Nick-T
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Graham Mitchell

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2011, 04:05:50 pm »

when did Hasselblad become so anti-photographers?

They've been antagonistic for a few years now. Closing off the H3/H4, calling 48x36mm "full frame", making the 28mm lens only work with Hasselblad backs. I was hoping this foolishness would end with the new owners but perhaps not. I'm still hoping to see them do the right thing, just for the sake of the industry. I'm shooting a Hy6 so I'm not personally affected.
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DeeJay

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2011, 05:17:04 pm »

Yes they are ridiculously bad, this really takes the piss. They abandon their customers in the first place and now after everyone traded in their H1 and 2's they open their doors again wanting you to comply with their greedy capitalistic schemes. It's pathetic. I do think they are just saving face because they made one of the industries greatest cock ups in history. I'm guessing that the H5D will be an open platform camera and not particularly far off anyway. That way they can rob you even more.

So they now have control of the used market as well. Wow, can't wait to see what the evil genius at Hasselblads next move is  ::)

poor, poor old Vic
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 05:29:19 pm by DeeJay »
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vduault

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2011, 06:09:41 pm »

"I'm guessing that the H5D will be an open platform camera..."

I'm not sure they will renounce their digital back activity, the investment in Imacon digital back is too heavy for Hasselblad to change his strategy...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2011, 06:44:43 pm »

I'm not sure they will renounce their digital back activity, the investment in Imacon digital back is too heavy for Hasselblad to change his strategy...

There is no way the Phaseone backs are perfect enough that a competitor cannot do much better in terms of usability/performance/price to quality ratio,...

Instead of trying to lock up everything, they should try to compete by delivering better value to the photographers with better digital products.

What we have here is obviously the externalization of internal issues within the company, probably with some key engineers, who do not have the skills it takes to move the company forward. These discussions are always tough ones, but it very much looks like new blood is needed... not at the level of the ownership, but at the level of top engineering.

Cheers,
Bernard

amsp

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2011, 07:26:36 pm »

In the hopes of seeing the venerable company that is Hasselblad get their act together I hereby deploy the mightiest of weapons... sarcasm  ::)

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MrSmith

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2011, 07:44:51 pm »

is this for real? :o
look forward to the resident hblad apologists response.
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vduault

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2011, 07:51:05 pm »

>@Bernard Languillier

For me the origin of the problem is not at the level of top engineering, it is the chosen strategy by Hasselblad/Imacon which is difficult to apply to the medium-format market size. You can have a closed platform when you sell zillions cameras like Canon or Nikon, but not when you sell medium-format where the owners expect much more complementary equipments (the camera+the digital back) than "pure" performance...

At this market size, complementarity pays much more than frontal concurrency between closed platforms.
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hubell

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #52 on: October 27, 2011, 10:03:49 pm »

They've been antagonistic for a few years now. Closing off the H3/H4, calling 48x36mm "full frame", making the 28mm lens only work with Hasselblad backs. I was hoping this foolishness would end with the new owners but perhaps not. I'm still hoping to see them do the right thing, just for the sake of the industry. I'm shooting a Hy6 so I'm not personally affected.

It is so bizarre that the antagonistic responses to Hasselblad's release of the new H4X are from people like you who don't use, and would NEVER use, a Hasselblad product. If I were you, this is what I would be raising hell about, not the H4X. http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31379.

Kitty

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #53 on: October 27, 2011, 10:33:59 pm »

It is so bizarre that the antagonistic responses to Hasselblad's release of the new H4X are from people like you who don't use, and would NEVER use, a Hasselblad product. If I were you, this is what I would be raising hell about, not the H4X. http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31379.

May be this is the 1st step to admit that they were wrong to close their system. In the computer world closed system mostly gone or getting smaller and smaller.
H body is a great system. But repairing cost is very high. I think that is why a lot of H user move to Phase body.
I am judging too. All my 4 H bodies shutter need to replace at about 30K actuation. And cost US$1,300.
Maintenance is killing me right now. I am so much worried about the durability of H4X.
What is the cost of trade in? 3,995 Euros?
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siebel

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #54 on: October 27, 2011, 11:01:06 pm »

Hmmm. On the surface of it, this is a very good move, sure to be welcomed by H1 and H2 users. This is as it should be, and I applaud Hasselblad for the move.

If one were a little cynical, you could see this as a purely defensive play to protect the rental market, which has a huge impact not only on Hasselblads bottom line, but on its presence in the MF market.

Put yourself in she shoes of a rental studio manager for a moment.....

You have a MASSIVE investment in H series lenses, a lot of tired and ageing H1 and H2 bodies and a mix of Leaf, Phase and Hasselblad backs. You may even have some H3 and H4 "Complete camera systems" as there is some demand to rent these.
Replacing your H1 and H2 bodies with H4's doesn't work within the rental business model as all the backs need to be interchangeable with all the bodies for the business model to be effective.
Due to the ageing of your bodies, your servicing costs are skyrocketing. Your main supplier of cameras, Hasselblad, is insisting that with every replacement body you buy, you have to buy another back. This is not only cost prohibitive, but that particular back can not be used on the dozens of other bodies you have in your inventory.
At some point in time, this problem gets to a tipping point and you have a very serious problem. Your only practical solution is to pick up the phone and call your Danish friends.
Unless I've read this wrong, many rental studios hit that tipping point inside the last 12 months.
The pressure was increased exponentially by the release of the shiny new backs from Denmark. I include in this the newly-Danish backs with the little green logo. Customers want to rent these, but you can't put them on the newer Swedish cameras, only the old, tired ones.
Suddenly, that massive investment you have in superb Swedish optics, which your customers know and love, is starting to look like a liability, not an asset. Your only real alternative has for some time been the Japanese glass, now Danish controlled. The reputation of the Japanese glass, prior to Danish control, was patchy at best, so you never took it that seriously. However, when the Danes got into bed with a small German crew sailing under a flag with "Schneider" on it, the view on the horizon took on a somewhat rosier tint.....

Meanwhile back in Sweden, a new Commander-in-Cheif has just been sworn in....

Surveying the strategic map in Rental-land, he sees, finally, that his great strategy for world domination, the "Complete Camera System", is going to cost him this battle, and maybe the war.
He orders a tactical adjustment and fires his new weapon, the H4x, across the bows of the onrushing Danish armada. In the back of his mind, he is also troubled by intelligence reports that the Danes, armed with secret plans (patents) acquired from treaties with the Israelis, are preparing to deploy their own dreaded secret weapon.....
So focussed was he on this battle, he completely forgot that the great mass of loyal subjects, whose loyalty to his products actually funded his great crusade, might want to be freed of their shackles too. Suddenly, the Commander-in-cheif begins to hear mutinous mutterings from his crack units, the H3 Brigade and the H4 Commandos.

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of THE HASSELPHASE WARS!!!!!

We live in interesting times indeed..
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Bryan Siebel

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Graham Mitchell

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2011, 01:09:49 am »

It is so bizarre that the antagonistic responses to Hasselblad's release of the new H4X are from people like you who don't use, and would NEVER use, a Hasselblad product. If I were you, this is what I would be raising hell about, not the H4X. http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31379.

How wrong you are.

1) this is far from 'raising hell'
2) I have been a Hasselblad customer in the past and if they came out with a killer new camera in the future I would definitely consider it
3) I have every right to express an opinion on here, regardless of which equipment I currently own, and
4) I have raised a support case about the Leaf CF issues and am working with them to help them solve it.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2011, 02:40:07 am »

Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of THE HASSELPHASE WARS!!!!!

I am afraid it will soon look like a war between VHS and Betamax on CRTs while the world watches HD downloads on mobile devices...

Cheers,
Bernard

siebel

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2011, 02:56:53 am »

I am afraid it will soon look like a war between VHS and Betamax on CRTs while the world watches HD downloads on mobile devices...

Cheers,
Bernard


Are you the same guy who predicted that TV would be the end of radio, and video the end of cinemas, etc etc?

I have never had the level of demand I currently do for ultra-resolution imagery. I've had to evolve my business in response to opportunities presented by the new technology, but far from shrinking, my business is growing exponentially. This techno revolution is nothing new. Some operators will evolve, others will die. C'est la vie.
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Bryan Siebel

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design_freak

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #58 on: October 28, 2011, 03:50:26 am »

You have got to be kidding me right? This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, when did Hasselblad become so anti-photographers? Victor must be rolling in his grave right now.

Not the first nor the last time  :-\
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Best regards,
DF

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Re: Rumormill: Hasselblad H4X Imminent
« Reply #59 on: October 28, 2011, 04:07:16 am »

There is no way the Phaseone backs are perfect enough that a competitor cannot do much better in terms of usability/performance/price to quality ratio,...

Instead of trying to lock up everything, they should try to compete by delivering better value to the photographers with better digital products.

What we have here is obviously the externalization of internal issues within the company, probably with some key engineers, who do not have the skills it takes to move the company forward. These discussions are always tough ones, but it very much looks like new blood is needed... not at the level of the ownership, but at the level of top engineering.

Cheers,
Bernard


Owner gives money, counting on a good return. In my humble opinion, it is not the fault of the engineers. You should have the absolutely best special forces, but without a good command of General in the staff do nothing ...
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Best regards,
DF
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