Print stability and profiling

[tony22]

Or maybe profiling and print stability. I've posted recently of finally having gotten a nice print profile using i1Profiler. But I keep noticing something that makes me wonder why we should be doing this at all.

Even with my less than good profiles using other methods, I'd noticed that if I checked the color stability over the course of several days or weeks - even for test prints that were left in the dark - the colors would shift enough over that period of time to be noticeable (to me, anyway). This is on a dye subprinter (granted), but with OEM (canon) papers and inks (Chromalife100). Now with my recent success on i1Profiler and Epson paper, I read the test charts 36 hours after they were printed to create the profile. I then used the profile to create a couple of test images. Sure enough, between 24 and 48 hours later they were bang on when I measured them. But even one day after that the color has shifted a bit. I have some older test prints which show a dE2K of over 2 over the course of a couple of weeks while in dark storage.

I know dye sub does not have the longevity of pigment, but does that mean it is measureably less stable in conditions I've described? If I profile a paper x number of hours after it's printed, do I have to go so far as to "fix" my printed images after waiting the same amount of time?

[degrub]

You mean dye based ink versus pigment based ink, iassume. Dye sublimation is a different animal.  From what i read, the dye based inks can continue to change some as they dry and interact with the paper. Maybe something is going on with that ink and that paper ?

What about with Canon photo paper ?

[Ernst Dinkla]

Pigment inks in general are stable in a far shorter period and on the long run (fade resistant). Dye inks take more time to become stable and will shift on the long run. They also are more affected by the humidity at print time and after that. For proof printing pigment prints show better consistency.
There has been a discussion on the Colorsync list 5 years ago:
http://lists.apple.com/archives/colorsync-users/2006/Dec/msg00119.html

The subject was discussed there several times before. You could google for it.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

New: Spectral plots of +250 inkjet papers:

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

[smilem]

You need to keep the printed targets in normal environment for a number of days until the shift does not occur any more, only them measure them. This can be as long as 2 or 3 weeks.

If you keep your targets in the dark, no wonder you get huge 2 dE2000 after more than 36 hours the prints are removed from the dark. Remember ideally the target should get the same conditions the print endures, otherwise it's apples to oranges.

[tony22]

You mean dye based ink versus pigment based ink, iassume. Dye sublimation is a different animal.  From what i read, the dye based inks can continue to change some as they dry and interact with the paper. Maybe something is going on with that ink and that paper ?

What about with Canon photo paper ?

Thank you degrub. Correction made in my original. As for Canon papers on Canon inks, same sort of thing. But from what Ernst and smilem indicated here this may be expected, and maybe exacerbated by what I'm doing relative to storage!

Dye inks take more time to become stable and will shift on the long run. They also are more affected by the humidity at print time and after that. For proof printing pigment prints show better consistency.
There has been a discussion on the Colorsync list 5 years ago:
http://lists.apple.com/archives/colorsync-users/2006/Dec/msg00119.html

Thanks for the link, Ernst. I plan to go through it in a moment. I expected dye prints to be less stable in the long run, but this shorter term stability has surprised me. I know my next question should probably be in its own thread, but is there a way to treat dye prints after printing so they can (shorter term) stabilize a bit better?

You need to keep the printed targets in normal environment for a number of days until the shift does not occur any more, only them measure them. This can be as long as 2 or 3 weeks.

If you keep your targets in the dark, no wonder you get huge 2 dE2000 after more than 36 hours the prints are removed from the dark. Remember ideally the target should get the same conditions the print endures, otherwise it's apples to oranges.

Hmm. So how long should I wait (I guess it would depend on the paper-ink combo, but is there no rule of thumb?) before actually reading a test print for creating a profile?

[smilem]

Hmm. So how long should I wait (I guess it would depend on the paper-ink combo, but is there no rule of thumb?) before actually reading a test print for creating a profile?

If you would have profilemaker you could compare the 1st measurement vs. a week later, if there would be no significant color shift then it's ready for profile making, otherwise wait longer.

I think the comparing module is free in measuretool app in profilemaker suite, so you should download it and give it a try.

[tony22]

I think the comparing module is free in measuretool app in profilemaker suite, so you should download it and give it a try.

Yes, that's exactly what I've been using to check the drift of the test prints. Don't know why it never occurred to me to use it on the actual test charts!? Thanks.