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Author Topic: P65+ and Rodenstock HR S 100 for still life shooting  (Read 1542 times)

studio347

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P65+ and Rodenstock HR S 100 for still life shooting
« on: September 30, 2011, 08:09:08 am »

Hi,
I'm a still-life photographer.
I have been using P25, Sinar 4X5, Schneider Digitar 100(mostly @f16 or sometimes @f11) for still-life/ table top and food images in editorial settings.
I'm planing to upgrade for P65+.
I want to hear some experiences with P65+ for still life shooting.
Are there any important advices & infos I need to be aware of for this upgrade other than the expected file size-increase, IQ/DR improvement, and the Dalsa_Kodak sensor difference?
Yes, I have read the related infos in this forum and others.

In general, is P65+ good for the table top_still-life shooting? I know this is a very vague question, but I want to hear the impressions of still-life photographers about P65+.

Do I need to shoot pictures at wider F-stop because of smaller size sensor_pixel of P65+(diffraction)? For example, @ f11 with P65+ instead of @ f16 which is my typical F-stop with P25? I din't have any problem with P45+ @ f16 for my taste....

If I use Rodenstock HR S 100 @ f 16 (or @ 11) with P65+ for table top_still life, can I expect some IQ increase compared with Schneider Digitar 100 @ f 16 (or @11) with P65+?
Or can I notice the difference only at the wider F-stops?
Can I notice small but noticeable IQ increase @ f16 (or @ f11) with P65+ and HR S 100? It's very difficult for me to do a test since the HR lenses are not out for rentals....
Yes, I'm aware of the image circle limitation of HR S lens.

Thanks in advance!
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rhsu

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Re: P65+ and Rodenstock HR S 100 for still life shooting
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2011, 01:06:07 am »

Pixel diffraction with the said P65+ pixel and HR100 should not be an issue.  It only becomes a problem when the P65+ is shot through a wider angle HR lenses ie 32, 28, 23 (likewise with Digitars) where the edges do get a bit "soft". 

..otherwise, your upgrade combination is perfect for table-top products.

Good luck...!
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: P65+ and Rodenstock HR S 100 for still life shooting
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2011, 01:42:55 am »

Hi,

Just a general comment on diffraction. Diffraction is not depending on sensor or lens. So diffraction is not going to change if you go from P25 to P65+. See it as a speed limit. The speed limit is the same for a Ford Bronco and a Porsche, but the Porsche could go much faster if it was not for the speed limit. So stopping down will not be any worse on the P65+ but to really use those pixels you need to be at medium aperture.

I'd recommend a glance on my article: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/index.php/photoarticles/49-dof-in-digital-pictures?start=1

This page shows the effects of both diffraction and defocus. The images are taken at 3.0 meters with exact focus and 3cm, 6cm, 9cm focus errors. The images are shot at apertures f/4 - f/16. For each image the diameter of the Airy ring (diffraction disk) and CoC caused by defocus is shown. One of the images is missing from the series, it was left out because of incomplete info.

The test would also apply to MFDBs having a similar sensor pitch. No such MFDB does exist, however, on a full size MFDB sensor the pixels size would correspond to 123 MP!

Stopping down will improve overall sharpness, but reduce maximal sharpness. It's probably better to loose maximum sharpness than having important detail unsharp, from what I seen, f/16 is pretty much OK, but f/22 is quite visible. Another way to say it that at f/22 you would probably loose half of the resolution available at medium apertures, that is loosing 75% of the megapixels.


Another observation is that diffraction is quite benign to sharpening, as the diffraction does not cause an uniformly illuminated disk (like defocus) but a "cone" of light. .
The Airy disk contaminates neighboring pixels but it's effect can be reduced by proper sharpening.


Best regards
Erik


Hi,
I'm a still-life photographer.
I have been using P25, Sinar 4X5, Schneider Digitar 100(mostly @f16 or sometimes @f11) for still-life/ table top and food images in editorial settings.
I'm planing to upgrade for P65+.
I want to hear some experiences with P65+ for still life shooting.
Are there any important advices & infos I need to be aware of for this upgrade other than the expected file size-increase, IQ/DR improvement, and the Dalsa_Kodak sensor difference?
Yes, I have read the related infos in this forum and others.

In general, is P65+ good for the table top_still-life shooting? I know this is a very vague question, but I want to hear the impressions of still-life photographers about P65+.

Do I need to shoot pictures at wider F-stop because of smaller size sensor_pixel of P65+(diffraction)? For example, @ f11 with P65+ instead of @ f16 which is my typical F-stop with P25? I din't have any problem with P45+ @ f16 for my taste....

If I use Rodenstock HR S 100 @ f 16 (or @ 11) with P65+ for table top_still life, can I expect some IQ increase compared with Schneider Digitar 100 @ f 16 (or @11) with P65+?
Or can I notice the difference only at the wider F-stops?
Can I notice small but noticeable IQ increase @ f16 (or @ f11) with P65+ and HR S 100? It's very difficult for me to do a test since the HR lenses are not out for rentals....
Yes, I'm aware of the image circle limitation of HR S lens.

Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 04:02:27 am by ErikKaffehr »
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Erik Kaffehr
 

ErikKaffehr

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Re: P65+ and Rodenstock HR S 100 for still life shooting
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2011, 02:02:52 am »

Hi,

Diffraction is only dependent on aperture. With the longer lenses DoF is very limited, so maximum resolution is only achieved on a very small area. So defocus and not diffraction will dominate.

Best regards
Erik

Pixel diffraction with the said P65+ pixel and HR100 should not be an issue.  It only becomes a problem when the P65+ is shot through a wider angle HR lenses ie 32, 28, 23 (likewise with Digitars) where the edges do get a bit "soft". 

..otherwise, your upgrade combination is perfect for table-top products.

Good luck...!
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Erik Kaffehr
 

studio347

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Re: P65+ and Rodenstock HR S 100 for still life shooting
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2011, 01:07:45 pm »

Thanks for replies!
It might take some time for me to digest the diffraction though.... :)
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EricWHiss

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Re: P65+ and Rodenstock HR S 100 for still life shooting
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2011, 03:10:08 am »

Erik,
I understand what you wrote and in theory that makes sense, but its not exactly what I see in my tests and work using the different backs.  Using the same 90mm schneider apo the 9um backs I've used, I could stop down to f/20 or f/22 before things got ugly, with the 6.8 backs I didn't really want to go past f/18 unless doing multishot where ironically I could stop down to f/32 and get acceptable sharpness.    With the latest 5.2um sensor f/13.4 or f/16 are the smallest I want to go ideally without resorting to the use of deconvolution software.   You can actually see degradation on the 5.2um sensor images after about f/7 or f/8 though it is a very gentle slope. The good news is that deconvolution software does recapture a lot. I think this should be built into to all the raw conversion software from now on. 

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