4900 prints very dark

[Four by Six]

Please excuse a topic that comes up a lot, but I could still use a bit of advice. My 4900 prints come out very dark.  I am using the Epson 4900 paper profiles (have tried several different Epson papers), and monitor calibrated to print.  The key thing is that I do get what I see on the monitor, and in the print preview.  Again, everything matches great.  It is just that the printer is too dark, and this takes a lot of rework in Photoshop to get a usable print.  Once corrected, the prints are amazing, and I have gotten lots of compliments.  However, this is very time consuming.  On my previous HP dye ink printer, if I was short of time or just lazy, I could simply dump the files to the printer and live with what was output. On the 4900, each print takes lots of work, not just a gamma correction.  I typically have to bump gamma, curves, brightness, and shadows - everything possible.  I am using a variety of cameras, but primarily Olympus E-PL1/E-PM1.  The histograms and output of camera looks fine on camera and windows preview.  All of these data points have led me to the conclusion that the printer is simply very dark.  I realize that the dynamic range of the printer is much less than the camera, and work is needed to optimize a print.  However, I still think I must be doing something very wrong here 

Some details: Windows PC, XP, CS5.1, Epson 4900, Dell monitor, Monitor profile used, Epson paper profile used, have tried Exhibition Fiber, Premium Luster, Whole sample pack of various cold/hot press, letting "printer manage colors".  Print preview very accurately matches output of printer.

[francois]

Have you read Andrew Rodney's article on this website?

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/why_are_my_prints_too_dark.shtml

[John Rodriguez]

That article has some good info.  Make sure you've covered the absolute basics first though -

- Color management turned off?  In the Epson driver make sure that color management is OFF
- Blocked nozzles?  Run a nozzle test to check
- Using soft proof?  Make sure you're soft proofing using your target printer/paper profile

In regards to the stuff in the article, I've never used a viewing booth (something else to buy one day), but I use basically the same process of setting my luminance and white point using the light in my fridge.  I just place the print on the top shelf, study it, then go back to the computer and adjust as necessary.  Also, having a monitor profiling system that also measures and helps you set your ambient lighting helps a lot.

[Four by Six]

Thanks for the link and help.  I have read it, but will re-read it again.  My main point of confusion is that the monitor, print preview, and print all match terrific.  They are just too dark compared to a basic windows preview of the jpeg.  I've never had to brighten an image to this extent with a printer before, just some basic gamma correction and shadow lifting in past, never this much before.  Thanks again for everyone's help.

[Pete Berry]

(Our posts crossed, but I still don't get it! Your print matches just what see you see on your monitor, which must mean your PS image is too dark also. So I'm wondering why you printed it if it was too dark in preview? I don't understand the difference in the Window's display of it unless it's not color managed, different gamma, etc.)

I may be having one of those dense senior moments, but I can't make sense out of your statement "...The key thing is that I do get what I see on the monitor, and in the print preview.  Again, everything matches great.  It is just that the printer is too dark...."  How can your print match the monitor if the monitor image is apparently as you want the print to appear, but the print is too dark, and the file needs extensive adjustment?

One way you can cut to the chase quickly is to print out an entirely unmodified printer test image using your current settings and see if it matches your monitor display. If the print appears "good" in luminance and colors, this would pretty much confirm an overbright monitor luminance setting - far and away the most common cause.

OTOH, if it prints just as dark as your own files, then something is awry in your workflow or possibly the printer itself.

http://digitaldog.net/tips/  Andrew Rodney's (Digitaldog) test file

http://homepage.mac.com/billatkinson/FileSharing2.html   Bill Atkinson's

Pete

[Wayne Fox]

They are just too dark compared to a basic windows preview of the jpeg. 

you state your monitor and print match but then you say it's too dark.  Printers don't just decide to print dark.  I'll admit I'm confused as well.

I assume you are aware your basic windows preview is not color managed so it's pretty useless to judge anything other than perhaps web jpegs.

As was suggested, download a good known target file and print it without modification - you can find one here. It will help you isolate what might be the problem.

[Four by Six]

Yes, I am confused as well, which is the reason for my post.  I will try all the great suggestions.  Thanks for the quick response!

[Farmer]

It'd say the Windows Preview isn't colour managed - you should only be comparing the preview in colour managed apps such as PS.

[Pete Berry]

My Vista default "Wiindows Photo Gallery" is fully color managed as far as I can tell - displaying aRGB and 16-bit ProPhoto RGB files indistinguishable from the same in a CS5 window next to it. Loads very quickly except for huge TIFFs.

In addition, it has a quite useful "Fix" utility with something CS5 doesn't have - a color module with color temp as well a tint and sat., unless you go to the hassle of re-opening a saved RAW TIFF file with the "Open as RAW" option which can't be executed, AFIK, from the file open in CS5. Also brightness/contrast, crop tool, e-mail reduction. And a 100% display button, which can be reduced in steps with the mouse wheel. It's great for quick fix of family photo JPGs on the fly while reviewing, but does lack shadow/highlight or curves adjustment.

Pete

[Mark D Segal]

Use Photoshop''s softproofing feature with Simulate Paper White and Black Point compensation both checked. THEN adjust your print on your display till it looks right. THEN print it and see what happens. In softproofing, make sure you have selected the correct printer and printer/paper profile you will print with. Make sure Colour Management is OFF in the Epson Driver, and Photoshop Manages Color is selected in the Photoshop Print GUI. You should be OK.

[abiggs]

I recommend printing off a standard evaluation test image. Print something that wasn't processed on your computer, and then go from there.

[VitOne]

Some input that I hope can help you:

1) As many already told you be sure that you are doing all correctly. Choosing the right diver settings, the right profile, the right rendering intent is not always as easy as it seems. You should also be sure to follow a proper color-managed workflow. It is important that all the device that you are using are correctly calibrated and profiled (see point 3).

2) Are you using an appropriate “lamp” to lighten the print? Did you checked the print under sunlight? It happened to me that monitor-to-print matching problems many times are related to inappropriate lighting conditions. It seems that many people forget that print does not emit light, so without a “good” light source you are going nowhere. You could try Solux (halogen) or fluorescent solutions (there are many topics in this and other forums related to this).

3) Maybe it could be helpful to lower the monitor luminance. Depending on the workspace and on the final print evaluating and showing environment you may require a different setting for your monitor to have monitor-to-print match. Maybe you could try some settings between 60 and 120 cd/mq.

[KeithR]

I would suggest that you take a look at purchasing the current tutorial(Camera to Print and Screen) being offered here on LL. The lastest download chapter is on softproofing.

[abiggs]

The most common reason why people have dark prints is that their display is turned up too bright. Try troubleshooting by using a standard evaluation image, as this image was not processed or worked on by you.

[tsjanik]

........ letting "printer manage colors". ...

See Mark's post above.  You should let Photoshop manage colors.

[Dave_Wyatt]

I'm also a bit confused, if the colour AND brightness match from the normal view in Photoshop to the outputted print then everything is normal, you just need to make the print look right on screen.  If the print is darker than the Photoshop view then its probably a problem with calibrating your screen to to high a brightness level (i have suffered this before and fixed it by calibrating to 80cd/m² instead of 100cd/m²).

However it also sounds like you are using the print driver for adjustments which IMO is not best practice.  You would be better served by selecting print in PS and then under 'Color Handling' selecting 'Photoshop Manages Colors' and 'Printer profile' Selecting the correct profile for your media.  You will also need to try different Rendering Intents to decide which works best for your profile/image.  After this make sure you click 'Print Settings' and select your media type, Print quality and select Custom>Off (no color adjustment) under the Mode menu.  You may also want to select 'Paper Config' and select paper thickness and platen gap depending on your paper (for a lot of modern 300gsm ish papers I go 4 and 'wide').  These settings will allow your print to use color management correctly without introducing undesirable variables, and with the epson papers/profiles will result in excellent prints matching the file sent to the printer.  Other papers may require a custom profile.