HPZ3100ps (GPS) 44"--we got it serviced--and the Z3100 is the large format Edsel

[Edhopkins]

Nearing the end of our warranty period--which we had extended to 4 years--we had the tech come out and do what was "necessary."  Thanks to all who advised on what to try to get done.

The printer has been subject to relatively light usage over last 4 years.

The insides were clear. The belt looked and felt perfect. It did not need to be replaced (or we couldn't get it replaced.)  The spittoon was only partially full.  One of the expired heads was leaking a bit. The Tech cleaned it and replaced it. We will be getting a new head for this one.  We learned how to check the heads by doing a "head alignment" and then looking at any suspect heads by pulling them.

The tech said he might have a spittoon around the shop he could replace ours with. We are hoping he finds one.

Talked to the tech--who works for a larger printing company here on the east coast--about large format printers.  There are not many z3100's out there; parts are getting harder and harder to get for them; he is scavenging any old z3100s he gets in the shop for usable parts.  At the present time he thinks there are parts that cannot be gotten for the z3100 which will force him to tell the unlucky Z3100 owner that their machine cannot be repaired.

There are not many z3200s out there either.

It will get harder and harder to repair the Z3100/z3200s.  Some will last longer than others.

The tech said it is all Canon IPF series large format printers out there (in the under 6k price range.)

We will keep out z3100 going until "it" happens--and we don't know what the "it" will be or when it will be.

But the next printer will almost certainly be the Canon IPF look alike--which has won out in the market competition.

Does all of this sound right?  Or is all of the information I got way off base?

Ed/Dottie in Baltimore

[hencha]

Hello Ed / Dottie,

Yep, all you said sounds right. Had a 24" 3100 and worked extremely well for almost 4 years, through personal use (nothing heavy). Something went wrong, and only then did I find out about having to scavenge parts here and there. HP was not stocking its own parts and I was even told by two "suppliers" that parts were no longer being manufactured (could not confirm that). What could be found seemed go up in price literally every 2 - 3 days !

To add insult to insult (!), HP's fee for coming to fix it was $1066, regardless of what was wrong, even if it turned out to be some $10 or 20 part !!
 
Was forced to sell it to someone who 'knew for sure' he could fix it, and he bought it under full disclosure on my part. Lost some $$, but I am more indignant than regretful.

I must say, though, that when working correctly, these printers are capable of producing truly excellent prints !   

HP will NEVER AGAIN be on my list when considering printers, regardless of any "bargain prices" or technological advancement they may offer. A class lawsuit seems very appropriate in this case, as per HP's blatant disregard for its customers. To sell $3000 / 5000 printers and to "pull" all support / parts after barely 4 years is beyond belief; complete lack of conscience !!!  Further, it is very strange how so many of these HP printers seem to 'go bad' just around the 4-year mark... At these prices, one would realistically expect to get 8-10 trouble-free years from these printers.

Hencha

[Thomas Krüger]

In Germany certain spare parts are now bundled resulting in a quite expensive price tag. Calling HP service without a service plan in Italy results in shameless estimates like 80 Euro to pay in anticipate just for having a reply on the phone. My Z3100 still works fine, but it will be probably my last HP large format printer.

[Justan]

While not defending the practice (I have a z3100 as well), this kind of thing is becoming standard throughout the computer industry. With Dell, as example, even with their high end servers it is nearly impossible to get parts from the manufacturer for something roughly 4 years old or greater, unless you have a valid service contract.

The policy sucks and is all about forcing planned obsolesce, but increasing numbers of manufacturers conspire to do it.

[tonywong]

I have a z3100 (two actually, I got a cheap spare), and I had hoped that the DesignJet series was immune to the HP policies that have so damaged their reputation in the past decade.

It used to be that HP products were solid workhorses that could be used (and frequently abused) and keep going. I noticed a substantial decline in their products starting with their PCs and multifunction printers/scanner/fax wherein they would quickly discontinue support and drivers and move on to the next generation of product.

At least I didn't pay the full retail price for my lightly used printers, and I'm hoping that if anything does go wrong I can use z3200 parts or z2100 components.

[Roscolo]

Nearing the end of our warranty period--which we had extended to 4 years--we had the tech come out and do what was "necessary."  Thanks to all who advised on what to try to get done.

The printer has been subject to relatively light usage over last 4 years.

The insides were clear. The belt looked and felt perfect. It did not need to be replaced (or we couldn't get it replaced.)  The spittoon was only partially full.

There are not many z3200s out there either.

You didn't mention any problems or anything broken on your printer...what was the problem that brought on the tech?

I don't know how many z3200's are "out there", but there must be many as there doesn't seem to be any great shortage; the z3200 seems to be available for purchase from all the major suppliers.

My z has outperformed any of the Epson's I've ever had. I mean so much better that it's ridiculous. 4 years with my z and still not one clog. Mine looks to be still going strong, but then I've taken care of it. If it died today, it has been so productive and made me so much money I couldn't complain. And I would readily purchase a new z3200. Heck, if they do that sale with the 44" z3200 for $2000 again I would buy TWO right now! Even at the regular prices available and the work my z3100 has brought me, a new z3200 would pay for itself in a less than 60 days.



If HP stops making / selling the z3200 44" in the sub $3,000 - $4,000 price range, that is the ONLY scenario where I would even look at another printer.

[Edhopkins]

No problems. As I said, we just had the tech come out at the end of our service contract and look it over and do what was necessary. 

This was our first large format printer. It has performed spectacularly.  We love the printer.

but....we wanted to pass on what our tech (one data point!) had told us.

later

ed

[Roscolo]

No problems. As I said, we just had the tech come out at the end of our service contract and look it over and do what was necessary. 

This was our first large format printer. It has performed spectacularly.  We love the printer.

but....we wanted to pass on what our tech (one data point!) had told us.

later

ed

Got it. It's the comparison of the z3100 to the Edsel in your headline that got my attention. So that comparison is not really accurate. The Ford Edsel was an experiment with a new model that failed, one of the greatest failures in auto manufacturing history. The accepted theories are the Edsel failed due to poor styling and poor workmanship. If the forums here and elsewhere are any guide, the z3100 (and z3200) would actually be the anti-Edsel, an experiment that had wild success on it's first model and did exactly what it advertised (rare indeed) and judging from the longevity of the printers and overall lack of complaints, the workmanship, while not perfect by any means (the reds some disapproved of in z3100, some belt failures, although looks like yours and mine are going on 4 years now) is excellent.

Hope HP stays in the large format printing business for a long, long time. That they produced a wide format printer that really doesn't NEED any new iteration or model (maybe minor tweaks that mostly were addressed in firmware / driver updates) because it performs so stunningly well in photographic reproduction, is a testament to some real ingenuity on the part of the design team, the assembly team, and someone(s) in the company at the upper levels for supporting a new printer design that really revolutionized inkjet photo printing.

Yes, I want a printer and a belt that lasts 10-15 years. At the same time, I give credit where credit is due. The z3100 / z3200 ain't no Edsel.

[John.Murray]

I've had outstanding performance and result's with my 24" Z3100 (3 years moderate, consistent use); if it died tomorrow, I'd replace it in a heartbeat with another Z.

[Ernst Dinkla]

The Z family of printers did not end with the Z3200, there is a Z5200 (2010) which still uses the Z2100/B9180 range heads (nr 70) but has an updated version of the Vivera inks. The cart size is larger  but I guess several parts are still usable for the older Z3x00  44" range. I think that heads and inks (in any disguise) will be available much longer, the most profitable part of the deal for HP.  The Designjet range still available in 2011 includes the Z3200 and even the 130 which must be 7 years in production now.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

New: Spectral plots of +250 inkjet papers:

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

[Edhopkins]

To John Murray (and others)

I hope the Z3100/Z3200 series stays around and, yes, the printer is great but I am concerned about what the facts are concerning its future and its maintainability.

Has the HPz3100/HPz3200 lost out to the Canon IPF series in terms of market share?  Will there even be a HP Z3300?  Will parts dry up?  Does HP still make the parts for these printers?  (Ernst has pointed out that other HP printers use some of the same parts. That is something, I suppose.)

I did spend some time looking around on the web for stats on market share. How many HP z series were sold compared to the comparable Canon IPF series?  I couldn't find this information. 

I do know my tech guy was surprised to see a Z3100--he had not seen one for a long time. And he works for a big company--not HP obviously.

Remember way back when the Beta format video tapes lost out in the market place to the VHS format?  it seemed clear to me that the Beta tape was the better choice than the VHS but those kinds of things don't matter in the market. 

Consider the Edsel in the title of my first post. I just saw one at a auto show in Delaware (Hagley Museum). Beautiful car. I thought they were neat when they came out. They just didn't catch on.  Lots of people loved them and even bought a second one after their first was totaled in a wreck (John Murray?). This didn't change the outcome.

And you can keep an Edsel going.  I saw one that drove onto the field of that auto show.  This is not the path I want to be on with my printer.

I am one with those full of desire that the HP Z3*00 series propers.  but the facts, the facts....

ed
Baltimore

[Roscolo]

Has the HPz3100/HPz3200 lost out to the Canon IPF series in terms of market share?  Will there even be a HP Z3300?...

I do know my tech guy was surprised to see a Z3100--he had not seen one for a long time. And he works for a big company--not HP obviously......

I am one with those full of desire that the HP Z3*00 series propers.  but the facts, the facts....

I think you have the facts. I don't know who has the most wide format photo printer market share, but I would bet it's not Canon...and it's not HP...it's probably still Epson. But your concerns with market share and the beta / vhs comparison don't apply here. We're not talking about products that every consumer is going to buy, or that suppliers have to retool for. These are 44" printers built for a pretty exclusive market. These aren't videotapes everyone is going to buy at the local megamart. And regardless of whether you're using Canon, HP or Epson, with very few exceptions you can run anybody's paper or canvas through any of them with no special requirements.

Will there be a z3300? I don't know. Why would there be? How much better than perfect do we need? The only reason I can see for HP to produce a sequel to the z3200 would be for increased speed maybe. Maybe a new model with a heavy duty belt that never frays? That's the only complaints I have seen. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That your HP certified tech sent out for your onsite service hasn't seen many z3100's only suggests there are not many service calls for z3100's. You even stated you have had no problems with yours in 4 years. Nor have I. That's not bad news. That's great news.

Why make a new model if the one we have is more than adequate (as close to perfect as I've seen in this biz)? Why call the tech if he's not needed?

Sounds like your tech is more like the Maytag repairman...complaining because he doesn't have any work, so he wants you to buy the things that he is paid to fix all the time.

[deanwork]

I thought there was a law in the US that corporations had to provide service and parts for 10 years? Is that not correct? I believe you can still get all the parts for the Epson 10K printer which is at least 11 years old. If HP does flake out like that it will kill any chance of their ever entering this market in the art arena again.

But thanks for the warning. As long as they continue to offer warranties ( they offered me a 2 year extension and I choose the one year) they are required to provide parts obviously or you are talking major lawsuits.

As to the Z3100 vs Canon IPF8300 comparison, I have both and love them both. The Canon has a slighter better gamut in some light hues and is light years faster and built like a tank and most of all those big 700 ml ink carts vs the skimpy 130 ml Hp carts. The Z produces noticeably better black and white output on matte media though, and Canon wins on fiber gloss by a long shot. Two other interesting things I've observed is that the HP does a better job with gloss differential on rc media while the Canon does a much superior job on fiber gloss media, with the Harmon it's perfect. Go figure.

The fact that Canon has been giving these printers to us at 50% off for the last year to obtain market share has certainly bumped them into the potential contender category against Epson, but that is a very difficult thing to do and would take time. But the price war isn't over. I just bought the new Epson 9890 for three grand, the same price I paid for the 8300. It looks like Canon is ending their rebates next week from the talk on the web. Epson is very serious about market share too, of course they are.

I kind of wonder if HP is even interested in the fine art market at this point. Look it is all small potatoes compared to the solvent and advertising markets. But they do have thousands of Kinkos stores that they have to provide parts and service too.  I hope they are staying in because their Vivera inks are the only super permanent color pigment on the market today. The fact that they got that degree of stability while achieving an acceptable gamut alone is just a great innovation itself. The on board Eye One spectro given to us for free is just icing on the cake and I"ve used the hell out of it on all kinds of difficult media on the fly, like kozo, silk, etc. You better not flake out of us HP.

John

[tonywong]

The hardware I've been happy with, but the software is still buggy and it looks like there are no more firmware/software updates coming for the z3100 series.

I have to reboot my z3100s every 2 weeks or else they will not wake up properly (stalls on wakeup). It will wake up for the head checks but I need to hard power it off if I cross a 2 week barrier while it is sleeping.

Also big Postscript jobs are prone to having errors, so I wind up rasterizing in Photoshop and using the PCL driver (so much for getting the PS GP model).

Not having to reboot after loading paper profiles would be good but that doesn't happen too often.

Hardware wise, I'd like a better way to prevent scratching on curled stock and feeding cut stock is a bit fussy as it measures the edges and whether things are straight. A more scratch resistant clear would be nice too as well as updated gamuts to be competitive with the latest ink sets from Canon and Epson.

[deanwork]

Yea the HP software has always been kind of squirrely and they are always slow to keep up with os upgrades.
Canon's plug in makes their old fashioned driver look pathetic.

I just run my Z through a pc with XP and Q-Image and the image quality is very nice, so I don't have much trouble. But a production machine it ain't.

john