Ultimate Workstation

[John.Murray]

Windows supports up to 64 displays, so no problem - my only concern would be heat, I'd take a carefull look at the PCIe slot spacing....

[Steve Weldon]

Windows supports up to 64 displays, so no problem - my only concern would be heat, I'd take a carefull look at the PCIe slot spacing....

Right.. but was wondering if you've any experience with the Eyefinity 6 cards?  I've only used one, never two.  At ATI I get the "they should work", so I guess I'll need to just order them in and see.  Really they should, but I like to be sure.

Heat is certainly an issue.  His last system with (4) 9800's cooked itself.  And it was sloppy at best when it worked.  Not to mention noisy.

I'm thinking (2) Eyefinity 6 cards will take less than half the power (less heat), and there's enough spacing on the slots to support Arctic Coolers which will keep things cool and quiet.  Should be more than enough power for his needs to keep things zippy.  With support for up to 12 displayport monitors he'll have room for expansion.

I can't think of any other clean way to support 8 monitors from the same box. 

[John.Murray]

Only 1 here as well - driving 4 displays as one image....  

Question: why would a "daytrader" need any form of high performance display card to display (as opposed to render) data, let alone "discovering" the mouse cursor amongst multiple individual desktop displays.

Why not a KVM solution (obviously we'd only be utilizing the Keyboard/Mouse) involving multiple reasonably configured CPU's?  A very rational way of determining display focus.  Figure 4 medium performance spec machines with dual display adapters, sharing a common IP gateway - need more displays?  Add a machine.....

Another advantage - redundancy.  Any free form internet "research" results in significant risk.  This can be partitioned to individual machines, leaving others dedicated to reporting unnaffected...

Patch/Update management for this cluster?  Setup one box with WSUS and instrument it to email you results daily...  

Good for you, Good for your customer....

[Steve Weldon]

Only 1 here as well - driving 4 displays as one image....  

Question: why would a "daytrader" need any form of high performance display card to display (as opposed to render) data, let alone "discovering" the mouse cursor amongst multiple individual desktop displays.

Why not a KVM solution (obviously we'd only be utilizing the Keyboard/Mouse) involving multiple reasonably configured CPU's?  A very rational way of determining display focus.  Figure 4 medium performance spec machines with dual display adapters, sharing a common IP gateway - need more displays?  Add a machine.....

Another advantage - redundancy.  Any free form internet "research" results in significant risk.  This can be partitioned to individual machines, leaving others dedicated to reporting unnaffected...

Patch/Update management for this cluster?  Setup one box with WSUS and instrument it to email you results daily...  

Good for you, Good for your customer....

Good questions and some good ideas.   This customer I think wanted to game and enjoyed the thought of a high performance box as much as he wanted the day trading capabilities.   We ended up with Sapphire 5670 Flex cards which can run 4 monitors using an active adapter which Sapphire sells relatively cheaply.  I'd still have rather went with the Eyefinity 6 as it's not that powerful a card and I like Displayport cables/ports/monitors for multi displays..

Anyway, I wrote a short review on the system you can see here, and have since shipped half a dozen more and twice that many readers have given feedback that they've built their own using this build as a model.  Not a great success, but not bad considering I normally do imaging machines.  It seems more than a few day traders like a more powerful machine than they really need.

[Marlyn]

I've just been through this process myself for a new workstation, built on current consumer components.    It dosn't fit the author's exact spec as it is built on the new x79 motherboard,  with the new 2011 processor,  but that could be replaced easily with the generation prior MB.

With regards performance,
Once the basics processor and memory is taken care of, the single biggest impact on system performance is DISK.  This is even more important for video editing that photo's,  but it can be just as important when browsing through that large image library.
My System has been speced with the expectation of editing eithe 80mp files off MF backs,  or working though 1000's of files from a wildlife shoot.  I was after the best performance I could get from consumer grade components.

Note, this is yet to be built, so I don't have performance specs.  come next month.

PC:
ASUS PX79 WS  LGA 2011  Motherboard.  (Workstation board)
G.SKIL 64gb DDR3 1600 memory in 8x 8gb modules.
Intel core i7-3960X 6 Core Processor
2 x NVidia Quadro 4000 graphics cards
Thermaltake Toughpower 1050W 80+Gold PSU
Thermaltake Chaser MK-1 Case   (Though looking at other cases still)
LG 12x DVD/BlueRay Burner
1 x Samsung 512gb SATA III SSD.   (Double checking these compared to others for speed, may go OCZ yet)  - OS Drive.
2 x 250gb SSD (existing)  1x PageFile, 1 x Scratch disk

Price: Approx US$5k  from NewEgg for the new parts.  (everything except the 2x 250gb SSD's)

Note: I am deliberatly avoiding INTERNAL raid storage for the image library.

Storage

1 x Burly Systems 8 bay SATA Enclosure with 8x1 TB Hitachi Drives.    Configured in Raid 0
1 x 2 Channel SAS Card

This produces 800/MB/S  sustained transfer rate for data and costs less than a bunch of SSD's.  (Approx $2.5) and is well proven.
Main Image Library and Lightroom Library / Previews live here.

Online Backup
DROBO-PRO 8 Bay populated with 6TB of storage.  (This is existing device, and will be the backup array)


I am still working out the best configuration of the SSD"s inside the PC, and that will require some testing between OS, Page, Scratch and other working.  I may throw in another SSD for working drive yet, and reduce OS drive size.   The bulk storage however, lives ont he external SAS array, and provides very high speed streaming for video editing.

Burly systems devices were in fact mentioned recently here in the Camera-Print-Screen tute when going around Jeff Schewe's lab.   The guys there have been extremley helpfull in specing this for me.    I havn't tested it myseflf as yet,  but will be end of Jan.

Having just gone through the process of carefully selecting components for a similar system, perhaps it is of some use to someone.

regards

Mark

[John.Murray]

Mark:  Similar to what I'm currently working with; some issues I've had:

Asus MB as shipped has some minor issues - be sure to update to latest BIOS, also check latest QVL (qualified vendor list) for your selected memory....  I have this board, but received Intel's reference board and built using it...

Why the Quadro 4000's?  You can do much better performance and price wise - hardware is increasingly getting more and more application specific.

This obsession over the the windows "pagefile" on a separate disk, don't bother, with that amount of memory, you can turn it off. Take that pair of SSD's and set them up as RAID0 0 for your PS scratch - speaking of that, make sure your devices support TRIM in that mode.

You'll find the overall platform to be very similar in "feel" to a solid X58 - but with longer legs.  If your applications are not particularly memory bound, then a good Z67/68 platform will be comparable

Honestly, If you insist on building the ultimate today, this would be the platform, but the cost/performance aspect is difficult to justify.  A Z68 platform with a 2600 CPU is *really close* (again, keep application memory access in mind) - I'm waiting on Ivy Bridge with it's trigate transistors (and presumably Thunderbolt).

[Steve Weldon]

Why the Quadro 4000's?  You can do much better performance and price wise - hardware is increasingly getting more and more application specific.

This obsession over the the windows "pagefile" on a separate disk, don't bother, with that amount of memory, you can turn it off.

Take that pair of SSD's and set them up as RAID0 0 for your PS scratch - speaking of that, make sure your devices support TRIM in that mode.

Honestly, If you insist on building the ultimate today, this would be the platform, but the cost/performance aspect is difficult to justify.  A Z68 platform with a 2600 CPU is *really close* (again, keep application memory access in mind) - I'm waiting on Ivy Bridge with it's trigate transistors (and presumably Thunderbolt).

a.  Having built a number of these now I tend to agree with most of your points, where I don't agree I'm just inclined to do things a bit differently.  I agree about the 4000's.  Unless the application is directly supported by that board there will be no significant gains in performance over a gaming series.  If running multiple GPU cards I really like Lian-li's V1020 case with their optional BS-06x GPU cooler.  I've measured an easy 20-25c difference running that cooler with zero increase in noise levels, actually there is a decrease because the GPU fans are running at lesser speeds.

b.  Or leave it on.. it won't matter with that much RAM and the SSD's.  There will be so little measurable difference either way it's not even worth thinking about.

c.  Without a doubt I'd go with a Revo 3 x2 for the system, especially with all that PCIe bandwidth.  Even the Revo Hybrid would be a better choice in my mind than the two 256gb's.  If I did this I'd also go with an extended ATX board for the extra PCIe slots and extra room for cooling.

d.  Agreed.  The only reason to go with the 3960x six core is if you're rendering large video files routinely.  And the same with the memory, 64gb is way overkill for anything but heavy video rendering.


I'd also much rather have one of the new Seasonic Platinum's PS's over the Thermaltake by any measurement of comparison.  I've had both side by side naked and the differences in componentry and build quality are significant.   

A lot of this comes down to being more about individual comfort levels/experience with certain gear more than about the small differences in performance.  Though, the Revo's provide a performance level significantly better than you're likely to achieve with individual SATA III SSD's.  Think about the cooling more than anything, on such a pricey box you want to get your mileage out of it.. and that means thoughtful and complete cooling. 

[VitOne]

A good workstation for a photographer should have a 10-bit capable video card. From direct experience I can tell you that only ATI graphic cards can run Photoshop CS5 using this feature. Of course you will need proper OS, cable, software. http://forums.adobe.com/thread/506853?start=0&tstart=0

10 bit at the moment is a little bit tricky but there are some advantages. If you are using a recent monitor (such as Nec PA271W and PA241W) then you will have noticeable benefits using the 10bit mode in Photoshop.

Running 10bit can help you achieve better results giving better visualization of your work.

A good (and cheap) card is the V4800 FirePro. It works fine, not a very powerful GPU but it does the job. If you need more GPU power (I can easily work with P30+ and P65+ files with the V4800. For my personal photographic needs I am fine, but of course you may prefer a different solution for other reasons.

[Steve Weldon]

A good workstation for a photographer should have a 10-bit capable video card. From direct experience I can tell you that only ATI graphic cards can run Photoshop CS5 using this feature. Of course you will need proper OS, cable, software. http://forums.adobe.com/thread/506853?start=0&tstart=0

10 bit at the moment is a little bit tricky but there are some advantages. If you are using a recent monitor (such as Nec PA271W and PA241W) then you will have noticeable benefits using the 10bit mode in Photoshop.

Running 10bit can help you achieve better results giving better visualization of your work.

A good (and cheap) card is the V4800 FirePro. It works fine, not a very powerful GPU but it does the job. If you need more GPU power (I can easily work with P30+ and P65+ files with the V4800. For my personal photographic needs I am fine, but of course you may prefer a different solution for other reasons.

a.  Are we really at the "should" stage with 10 bit?  I dare say the overwhelming majority of pros haven't yet completed a full 10 bit work flow and of course they're putting out professional quality work. 

b.  This is the key.  Can you really see the difference (anyone?) and if so, does it translate to your final media destination, which would be prints, web output, and whatever else you're creating.  I don't see it for web output, nor for the lower end lab quality prints, but what about the best inkjet prints and any other higher end type prints?


I suppose what I'm getting at is are we getting the 'value' from 10 bit.  After you spend for a pricey workstation card, perhaps you have to upgrade your monitors, maybe your version of CS, prints, etc.. are you seeing a different in your final output which makes that money well spent?  I do spent for speed, speed from faster SSD's , fast RAM, machine, etc.. equate to less hours on the workstation which to me is worth money.  At least when I'm working..   If I take money from something else to make the investment in 10 bit which for me would require at least a decently fast workstation GPU (I wouldn't want less speed/power than I have now) and two new PA271W's.. would I see a difference in output which I could market for an increased ROI?   Sure, if I was replacing my monitors today I'd buy 10 bit, it doesn't make sense not to.  But that workstation card is still a pricey chunk of cash. 

Sorry for the disjointed paragraph, I need more information to better focus my questions on this..

[John.Murray]

Such a fun thread......

Steve, I finally bit a few days ago and received a Revo 3x2 240GB early today ($700), holy s*** .....

Folks: If you are considering messing with anything more than 2 SSD drives, STOP!  Just put your O/S, and point your PS scratch to this thing.  Save those SATA channels for *storage*.

My only concern with this is De-Duplication*, but for O/S this is a good risk.

*De-Duplication is an optimization technique that Sandforce uses to limit the number of writes to MLC blocks.  On the face of it, it a great idea, but the Filesystem itself depends on redundant blocks of information, if there is a read error in a critical block, the filesystem simply fails over to a a redundant block. De-Duplication circumvents this; the result is that a single failed block can result in the entire loss of the filesystem.

[Steve Weldon]

Such a fun thread......

Steve, I finally bit a few days ago and received a Revo 3x2 240GB early today ($700), holy s*** .....

If you are considering messing with anything more than 2 SSD drives, STOP!  Just put your O/S, and point your PS scratch to this thing.  Save those SATA channels for *storage*.

My only concern with this is De-Duplication, but for O/S this is a good risk

"Awesome" doesn't even begin to describe it eh?  Or get a 512gb and put everything on it but your storage, your OS, scratch, work drive, indexes..  it wouldn't be a stretch would it..    

Did you get the max IOPS version, the latest in decadent storage needs?

I started 6-7 months back with 1 Revo on the highest end rigs, and since the hybrid came out 2.. which pushed me towards the extended ATX boards.  And by using the two Revo's now you can use those 3.5" slots in the case for  ( 4tb SATA III drives with a Promise Tech card for a super fast 24gb RAID 50..   Money seems to be no object with so many.. "if you build it they will come.."

Meanwhile I'm looking forward to Ivy Bridge and upgrading my personal workstation.  I'm still using my 'old' Crucial C300 256gb SSD.. with an original Revo in my workshop station.  With only 12gb of 2133 RAM, a dual GPU 5970, and an ancient 950 I'm way behind the times.   Ivy Bridge will be my next frontier and I'll have got 3 years from my current workstation.  A few more months..

Personally though.. I feel like the 3960x is pricey for those who aren't waiting for Ivy Bridge.   Ah well.

Share an AS-SSD screen capture.. don't be shy.. ;o)