Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8  (Read 9175 times)

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
    • http://bergsprintstudio.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« on: August 24, 2011, 08:38:14 am »

I am presently using Silverfast V6.6 and Epson Scan with my Epson V750.
Most of the scanning I do is of 4x6 and 8x10 prints that I enlarge and print on canvas for local walk in customers.
Also the occasional 35mm and 120 negatives.
More often then not I scan using the Epson software as it is just easier and quicker to use.
I just finished watching the videos on the new V8 from Silverfast  and see some nice new features.
I really would like to set up some sort of scanning workflow that makes this at least a little more fun to do rather then such a chore.
The V750 puts out a really nice quality scan from prints. Negative scanning is another story.
I have not checked the upgrade price from my present version so that is not the issue.
What about the HDRi,is that helpful?
 I just need to move my scanning service to the next level and was hoping this version may offer me a little more intuitive workflow.
Thoughts?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 09:26:32 am by Dan Berg »
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2011, 09:33:45 am »

The reasons why negative scanning may be "another story" are (1) this is better done in a dedicated, high quality film scanner, and (2) Epson scan is a relatively limited application. Over ten years ago, I migrated into first Vuescan then SilverFast, when I found that OEM software just didn't cut it for dealing with negatives, and I have never looked back.

When you get right down to it, the main new features in SilverFast 8 over 6.6 are that the interface and workflow are really a hell of a lot better, and the operating speed and convenience are much better. It's become a just much more usable application. For a studio environment such as yours I would definitely recommend at least downloading a demo of SF8 Studio, and giving it a test run. Start with the Workflow Pilot, and then try the unguided mode. Nothing to lose but a bit of time. You may well like it. Whether it makes scanning "fun" - another talk-show!
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
    • http://bergsprintstudio.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2011, 10:24:34 am »

Thanks Mark.
The demo is running as we speak.
The upgrade is only $150 and I do like the new workflow pilot.
I have quite a few 120 negative's to scan and will load a few to see how it goes.

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2011, 10:34:12 am »

OK Dan. I suppose you know this - but just in case - for the negatives, do run through the most likely profiles in Negafix to find the one that best renders the film you are scanning. There should be a decent match between the film you used and the profile they provide for it, but sometimes - especially with rebranded films if you used those - it pays to experiment with various "likely candidates" amongst the Negafix profiles. I also authored an article for this website on scanning colour negatives you may wish to look at (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/techniques/scanning_colour_negatives_raw_or_not.shtml)- my bottom line being - after detailing a whole lot of onerous alternative procedures -  to use Negafix. The articles relies of course on the previous version of SilverFast, but the principles are the same.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
    • http://bergsprintstudio.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2011, 11:01:12 am »

Just finished reading Ian Lyons tutorial on Negafix.
Your article is next.
Thanks for the link.

Ian Matthews

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2011, 04:59:41 pm »

I would advise anyone thinking of upgrading to V8 to try the demo carefully. It may have a nicer interface but it has less functionality than V6.6.

You cannot sort the order of frames left/right top/bottom as you could in V6.6.

You cannot change the orientation of a single frame as you could in V6.6

There is no batch renaming/sequence numbering as in V6.6

This is what I have found after a few hours use so maybe there is more to come.

For such a high price for the upgrade I find this amazing. I get the impression they were forced to release this due to 6.6 not working with Lion. Silverfast have had a long time to prepare for this!

It also seems to constantly freezing up and suffering memory leaks.

And of course if you have got Lion you can't use HDR Studio V8 as it hasn't been released yet and there is no indication of when that will be.
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2011, 09:12:19 am »

Hello again Ian,

First, the problems you are describing apply to the specific case of a flatbed scanner in which you batch scan a number of photos at a time. People using film scanners would not experience most of these issues. In any event, I think it's always a good idea to try demo versions before buying.

Second, it is correct that a small handful of lesser-used features from SilverFast Ai6 have not been ported to SilverFast 8. The reason for this is that the whole program was redrafted from the bottom-up in a new and improved code base. In doing so, my understanding is that they needed to make decisions along the way about which features to keep, improve or drop. The items you mention were dropped (but you can do renumbering) - I would assume because in their judgment (based on what they know about how people are using the applications) they weren't important to enough users to justify the cost of redeveloping them. If enough people want/need them, I can imagine that they may have a second thought. There's really nothing "amazing" about any of this - time is money and business firms need to think of how best to use it. Only us users can alter their perception of that by bringing matters such as this to their attention, so they have enhanced information about priorities from user-perspectives. You can ask them directly, but I expect an HDR8 version should be not far off.

As for freezing up, I haven't had that experience (MacPro mid-2010, OSX 10.6.7). As for memory leaks, so far I haven't seen the kind of degraded performance suggesting same, but perhaps you could elaborate how you found memory leaks, and at the same time mention the computing environment in which you are using the application?
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Dward

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2011, 08:13:19 am »

I have both the Epson 750 and Nikon 9000.  For negative scanning, the Nikon is immensely better--I use it for 35mm and 6x7 and have had only great results.  It's only disadvantage, as far as I can tell, is that it is SLOW in doing high quality scans with post processing (digital ICE).  I offer my medium format customers only Nikon 9000 scans and use the 750 for large format only (I'm not ready to make the jump to a $20,000 virtual drum, such as an Imacon).   I've shown medium format customers side-by-side comparions of negative scans and Epson 750 scans, and the difference in quality is so instantly obvious that they all want the Nikon for their images.  The price of the 9000 is now gotten quite high due to its discontinuance, but I'd still consider making the investment to move to the next level of service.   Or, if the business model permits, go for the Imacon.  It'll get you to 4x5.

David V. Ward, Ph. D.
www.dvward.com
David V. Ward Fine Art Photography
Logged

degrub

  • Guest
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2011, 10:06:09 am »

i was surprised they dropped multi-sampling on the Nikons. Their claim is that multi-exposure provided equivalent results in their testing. Perhaps. It sounds like they have had to change their business model, and maybe not in a good way for my needs. It is a deal breaker for me.

Frank
Logged

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2763
    • http://bergsprintstudio.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2011, 10:06:17 am »

David,
Thank you for your input.
I have a Bronica 6x7 that I have been playing around with and as stated before the scans out of the v750 are average at best. Even with the Silverfast software.
Would be great to have the 9000 for this work except it is non revenue producing.
Offer still stands for you to visit me here in the country.

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2011, 10:10:33 am »

i was surprised they dropped multi-sampling on the Nikons. Their claim is that multi-exposure provided equivalent results in their testing. Perhaps. It sounds like they have had to change their business model, and maybe not in a good way for my needs. It is a deal breaker for me.

Frank

Let me ask: have you tested the results of multi-sampling versus multi-exposure (all else equal) yourself and looked at the difference in large prints?
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

degrub

  • Guest
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2011, 10:38:34 am »

When i was trying to pull up detail in the blacks in some kodachromes, i noticed the difference on screen at 100%. It was most noticeable in larger dark areas with detail. Small, but noticeable effect on the print when printed at 300ppi. Perhaps because i saw it on the screen i could see it on the print. A casual viewer may not have noticed. 'chromes with less DR in the scene did not seem to get as much benefit. Multi-exposure was not in SF  at the time, so i was using PS when i needed it. The Nikon Maid modules seemed to drop out some of the lower tones anyway, probably in an effort to reduce noise from the electronics. IIR the math correctly, two scans would only get about one bit of "increased DR" from the reduction in random electronic noise.

That was my experience.

Frank
Logged

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2011, 10:59:48 am »

When i was trying to pull up detail in the blacks in some kodachromes, i noticed the difference on screen at 100%. It was most noticeable in larger dark areas with detail. Small, but noticeable effect on the print when printed at 300ppi. Perhaps because i saw it on the screen i could see it on the print. A casual viewer may not have noticed. 'chromes with less DR in the scene did not seem to get as much benefit. Multi-exposure was not in SF  at the time, so i was using PS when i needed it. The Nikon Maid modules seemed to drop out some of the lower tones anyway, probably in an effort to reduce noise from the electronics. IIR the math correctly, two scans would only get about one bit of "increased DR" from the reduction in random electronic noise.

That was my experience.

Frank

OK, so trying to read this carefully, correct me if I misunderstood - I understand you have not directly tested Multi-Exposure in SF8 versus Multi-sampling in AI6 (all else equal) in a large print comparison, but you did notice - because you were looking hard - a *small difference* in prints with versus without multisampling. Right?
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

degrub

  • Guest
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2011, 11:05:44 am »

yes, and unless they changed something from 6.6 to 8 ( i did run the demo on 6.6 to check it out - i did not see a difference between what i had done in PS . i did not find that ME alone was as effective as what i was seeing with MS applied)
Frank
« Last Edit: August 26, 2011, 11:10:15 am by degrub »
Logged

Chris Kern

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2034
    • Chris Kern's Eponymous Website
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2011, 07:47:47 pm »

(I decided not to open a new thread, although my question takes a somewhat different tack than the direction of the discussion to date.)

I use Silverfast for 35mm transparency and negative scanning because it was bundled with my Plustek film scanner.  I had previously licensed Vuescan to drive the flatbed scanning function of my HP multifunction printer, and continue to use it with that device.

Has anyone detected any functional improvement between Silverfast 6.6 and Silverfast 8?  In other words, is there any reason to believe my film scans would look better with the newer rev of the software?  I couldn't find anything on the Lasersoft website suggesting they had made any functional enhancements.  I understand that the user agent is more pleasant -- and it certainly needed improvement -- but I'm an amateur with a low-volume scanning workload and I only use Silverfast for initial image capture; I do any required post-processing in Lightroom and Photoshop.

For that matter, is there any reason not to use Vuescan for film scanning?  I generally find it an easier product to work with.  I initially assumed that Silverfast would perform more effectively with the Plustek hardware because of the bundling and the tight coupling between hardware and software.  (Press a button on the Plustek front panel and the Silverfast app launches.)  However, some recent comparative tests I made with Vuescan running against my film scanner didn't support the hypothesis that Silverfast was a better match for the hardware.  If anything, the Vuescan output seemed slightly better.

Chris

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2011, 08:28:00 pm »

(I decided not to open a new thread, although my question takes a somewhat different tack than the direction of the discussion to date.)

I use Silverfast for 35mm transparency and negative scanning because it was bundled with my Plustek film scanner.  I had previously licensed Vuescan to drive the flatbed scanning function of my HP multifunction printer, and continue to use it with that device.

Has anyone detected any functional improvement between Silverfast 6.6 and Silverfast 8?  In other words, is there any reason to believe my film scans would look better with the newer rev of the software?  I couldn't find anything on the Lasersoft website suggesting they had made any functional enhancements.  I understand that the user agent is more pleasant -- and it certainly needed improvement -- but I'm an amateur with a low-volume scanning workload and I only use Silverfast for initial image capture; I do any required post-processing in Lightroom and Photoshop.

For that matter, is there any reason not to use Vuescan for film scanning?  I generally find it an easier product to work with.  I initially assumed that Silverfast would perform more effectively with the Plustek hardware because of the bundling and the tight coupling between hardware and software.  (Press a button on the Plustek front panel and the Silverfast app launches.)  However, some recent comparative tests I made with Vuescan running against my film scanner didn't support the hypothesis that Silverfast was a better match for the hardware.  If anything, the Vuescan output seemed slightly better.

Chris

The main differences I've seen are (1) massive improvement of the GUI, (2) faster operation of some functions, (3) some previews that were not real-time now are, (4) for the first time: iSRD support for infra-red capable Nikon scanners in Windows - this is a big deal for SIlverFast users with that combination, (5) capability of functioning with OSX-Lion. I don't see much difference of scan quality between Ai6 and 8; just in case I haven't pixel-peeped hard enough, so much to say if there are any they didn't hit me in the face. I understand the new code base will allow LSI to more easily introduce new features into future dot releases within the same version.

As for a comparison with Vuescan, I've used both applications and both are capable of delivering very good results. I don't think it's possible to say that one will give you systematically better scans than the other - so much depends on how you use each application. I do firmly believe the new version of SilverFast provides a far more pleasant and feature-rich scanning experience, but that is something each user needs to make-up their own minds about. My standard advice to my clients for digital-imaging instruction and indeed to anyone else who asks me - both companies provide free demos. Download, play and decide for yourself.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

Mark D Segal

  • Contributor
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 12512
    • http://www.markdsegal.com
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2011, 08:50:20 pm »

The main differences I've seen are (1) massive improvement of the GUI, (2) faster operation of some functions, (3) some previews that were not real-time now are, (4) for the first time: iSRD support for infra-red capable Nikon scanners in Windows - this is a big deal for SIlverFast users with that combination, (5) capability of functioning with OSX-Lion. I don't see much difference of scan quality between Ai6 and 8; just in case I haven't pixel-peeped hard enough, so much to say if there are any they didn't hit me in the face. I understand the new code base will allow LSI to more easily introduce new features into future dot releases within the same version.

As for a comparison with Vuescan, I've used both applications and both are capable of delivering very good results. I don't think it's possible to say that one will give you systematically better scans than the other - so much depends on how you use each application. I do firmly believe the new version of SilverFast provides a far more pleasant and feature-rich scanning experience, but that is something each user needs to make-up their own minds about. My standard advice to my clients for digital-imaging instruction and indeed to anyone else who asks me - both companies provide free demos. Download, play and decide for yourself.

I forgot to mention - there is a cool feature now made prominent and enhanced in SF8 that allows you to see and save a track-record of the settings and adjustments you made to the scan. This is very handy before scanning to review what you have and make sure you like it all before you hit the scan button, and if you save these records in a convenient manner, it also gives you permanent access to an aide-memoire of how you scanned the image, which can come in handy for review and revision purposes later on, should you feel the need to do so.
Logged
Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....."

j-land

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 35
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2011, 07:13:25 am »

I also found that for the Nikon LS8000 (Windows 7, 64 bit) version there are several features missing: super fine scan setting, film strip offset, manual focus control, option to turn off AF on prescan, lamp brightness control and there are probably more. Many of these I consider essential, so it's looking more like a down- than an upgrade to me...

I would advise anyone thinking of upgrading to V8 to try the demo carefully. It may have a nicer interface but it has less functionality than V6.6.

You cannot sort the order of frames left/right top/bottom as you could in V6.6.

You cannot change the orientation of a single frame as you could in V6.6

There is no batch renaming/sequence numbering as in V6.6

This is what I have found after a few hours use so maybe there is more to come.

For such a high price for the upgrade I find this amazing. I get the impression they were forced to release this due to 6.6 not working with Lion. Silverfast have had a long time to prepare for this!

It also seems to constantly freezing up and suffering memory leaks.

And of course if you have got Lion you can't use HDR Studio V8 as it hasn't been released yet and there is no indication of when that will be.
Logged

MrLeif

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Re: More questions on Silverfast Studio V8
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2011, 05:24:35 am »

I bought my Epson V700 to batch scan "a couple of thousand images".
I've used Silverfast up to version 6.6.
As far as quality, I'm satisfied with the results.  (For me, at the moment it is about volume more than quality, still I try to get the most out of the scanner with multisampling and max resolution.)

But this is about Silverfast.
I was "unsmart" enough to buy version 8 without testing it first, and soon found it useless for me, as the points listed by Ian is the most important issues for me, and among the reasons I continued using Silverfast.

You cannot rely on the Silverfast forums for quick answers, but at their facebook-page  https://www.facebook.com/#!/SilverFast, they answered pretty fast that this (missing) functionality will be implemented soon.

(Today, only 221 users "like" the SilverFast facebook-page.)
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up