RZ67 vs Schneider LS lenses

[MarkoRepse]

How do the RZ67 lenses compare to the newer 645 LS versions in terms of lens rendering? The RZ lenses are generally considered superior to the older 645 offering (I tend to agree), but have never seen them compared to the LS. Unfortunately I do not have access to the LS lenses for the foreseeable future and cannot do tests.

[PdF]

Schneider LS optics can only be used on a Mamiya or PhaseOne camera. The aperture is controlled electronically, with no possibility to choose a manual mode. So, there is no way to compare the two optical systems on the same camera.

PdF

[itsskin]

Mount same DB on 645DF\AF camera and RZ.
Compare the results of lenses with close focal length.
No problem to to answer the topic question.
For example, my RZ lenses are better than my canon L primes, but slower 

[MarkoRepse]

Or, could someone please provide some raw files shot with LS lenses (preferably wide open) and I can do my own analysis

[Ben Rubinstein]

Hi,

I don't have the samples anymore unfortunately and they were shot on a copy set up at f8. We were using a Leaf Aptus II-8 (40 megapixels) on a DF with Schneider 80mm vs an ancient and battered RZ with the 'kit' 110mm lens.

The Leaf representative couldn't believe his eyes. Sharpness the same, contrast a very tiny bit better on the Schneider.

The general consensus was as the back is using only the very center of the RZ lenses image it had the best sharpness that the lens was capable of but reasons and theories aside it really was an eye opener!

That and the fact we couldn't manually focus the shneider lens on a copy setup (focus drooped, wouldn't stick when pointed downwards) made us decide on the RZ setup nevermind we could buy two bodies and 4 lenses for the price of that DF with two lenses...

[Mr. Rib]

I didn't make any head-to-head tests but from what I've seen so far RZ lenses hold up pretty well with LS lenses.. if there is a difference, it definitely isn't worth the money- for one LS lens you can buy yourself quite a few RZ lenses Of course you have to stick to the best RZ performers to be content, and these would be: 50mm ULD, 65mm M-L/A, 110mm 'standard' lens, 75 shift, 75 short barrel, 140 macro M-L/A, 180 W-N, 180 short barrel, 210 APO, 350 APO, 500 APO. If you have a 40 mp digiback, stick with these and you'll be happy.

The catch is, as Ben mentioned, with a 48x36 sensor you're using only a small, central part of the image circle of the lens, which of course delivers best results.

[JonathanBenoit]

I didn't make any head-to-head tests but from what I've seen so far RZ lenses hold up pretty well with LS lenses.. if there is a difference, it definitely isn't worth the money- for one LS lens you can buy yourself quite a few RZ lenses Of course you have to stick to the best RZ performers to be content, and these would be: 50mm ULD, 65mm M-L/A, 110mm 'standard' lens, 75 shift, 75 short barrel, 140 macro M-L/A, 180 W-N, 180 short barrel, 210 APO, 350 APO, 500 APO. If you have a 40 mp digiback, stick with these and you'll be happy.

The catch is, as Ben mentioned, with a 48x36 sensor you're using only a small, central part of the image circle of the lens, which of course delivers best results.

I just bought a used RZ67 Pro II system with AE Prism II viewfinder, 120 magazine, 180mm SB, 110mm, 75mm SB, and shift tilt adapter for around $1700. Nothing comes close to that sort of value. The images created with it surpass any current 35mm dslr for sure.

[Jack Flesher]

Or, could someone please provide some raw files shot with LS lenses (preferably wide open) and I can do my own analysis

I put a verbal review of Mamya/Phase lenses here: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15710

These shots were taken with the 50LS wide open: closer in, http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=12667&c=288 and further out, http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=12693&c=288

I cannot lay my hands on them right now, but I have posted examples of the 80 and 110 wide open too.

[MarkoRepse]

Oooh yes, the RZ lenses are wonderful! They are sharp at any aperture and more importantly (to me) is the way the image is rendered is extremely pleasing, both for landscapes and people (which I shoot mostly). I'm trying to find out if the LS lenses are a worthwhile "upgrade" in this sense, technically they should be better than the RZ lenses, but do they have the same pleasing character? I would love to do tests, but its not an option right now I'm afraid.

[ianstamatic]

Rz lenses are wonderful.
I just picked up a 65mm L/A for a $212

[Professional]

I have RZ with two lenses only, 50mm and 180mm, to my eyes this Mamiya giving me the sharpest results out of all my other medium format film bodies [because my Mamiya 7II is not working yet], i am talking about film only, maybe one day i may get a digital back and see, but really the results i've got out of RZ and scan making me to think that this camera is still capable of what new modern cameras can, in fact because of Hasselblad H3DII i bought film cameras such as RZproII and Hasselbad 501CM.

[marcmccalmont]

Jack
A little off topic but how do the LS lenses stack up to the Rodenstock HR lenses? the reason I ask is I much prefer the use of an SLR because I often set up in the dark or other adverse weather conditions and a technical camera is a pain to use under these situations. I have a WRS and the 40hr 70hr and 105 but would the LS lenses on the DF camera come close to the HR lenses IQ?
Marc

[henrikfoto]

Hi Marc!

I have done some private testing on the LS lenses vs the Hr's.
I think at least the longer lenses from 80 and up the LS lenses are just as good if not better.

On the very wide lenses the HR lenses are a bit better, but not as much as I had thought.


Henrik

[Guy Mancuso]

My 55 LS Was extremely close and I mean extremely close to the new SK 60. The LS Lenses are very very good. Going above the 55 your going to most likely see better but it's not worldly from what I have seen so far. Under 55 that's a different story. Just bought a WRS with a 35XL and it is awesome compared to the 35d. For me the Cambo is the new 35 lens. But I do want just a tech cam kit too. Right now I am mixing up my kit between them.

[Mr. Rib]

It would be nice to see a comprehensive test of Rodie/Schneider vs Mamiya LS/RZ. A comparance of "similar" focal lenghts to make it sensible, at different apertures, with and without movement, a nice table of actual (usable) image circles of all the lenses and usable apertures of the lenses. That would be very interesting. I guess there would be only one company up to the task...                             ...right Doug?