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Author Topic: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage  (Read 3355 times)

Garnick

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9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« on: August 14, 2011, 11:13:55 am »

Hello all,

Within a few weeks I'll be taking a "forced vacation" for medical issues. The 9900 will then be in a state of non-usage for probably 5 or 6 weeks. I'd like to get some input from the community concerning possible "preparations" for such an event. Within the past couple of months I have experienced periods of a few days or a week without printing and there have been very few issues. I recently had to be away from my business for over a week and returned yesterday for a few hours to get somewhat caught up. To my surprise, the first nozzle check was perfect and I printed for a couple of hours without any problem at all. Indeed, a very pleasant surprise, given some of the problems I've had in the past. However, I am concerned that an extended layoff might cause issues that will require considerably more work to solve. I don't mind the dumped ink it might take to clean, as long as the time factor doesn't cause issues that might require a service call. Of course I have extended the warranty, but I'm not sure this sort of situation would be covered. I would appreciate any and all views, opinions or procedures that might alleviate any major problems that this sort of non-use could cause. I've also thought of calling Epson Service for advice, but haven't had an opportunity to do so yet.

Thank you,
Gary   
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Mark D Segal

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2011, 11:20:10 am »

Gary, sorry to hear about the reasons why you need this advice and wish you the best. Turning to the issue, it is of interest to me as well - different model and different reason - but same issue - prolonged absence. In my case, last month it was a case of five weeks non-use of my 4900 and it required eight cleaning cycles to get it back into shape, with test prints in-between to prevent other problems arising from the cleanings. It took me about an hour, and I doubt it used much ink because one can clean these channels two at a time as needed. To my mind, this reflects a systemic imperfection which I thought Epson had cured, insofar as my 3800 never needed this kind of work, even after weeks of non-use, but experience is proving otherwise. I think a service call to Epson is well-advised. I have Epson on notice about all this, and I am awaiting some kind of definitive resolution. Meanwhile, I think you should definitely spend a few moments and give them a call. Let us all use this thread to post any useful advice on PREVENTIVE maintenance.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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JohnHeerema

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2011, 12:29:19 pm »

In light of Mr. Segal's experience with the 4900, I think that a lot of Epson users worry about the effect of a period of printer disuse!

I also was concerned about the effect of not using my Epson 9900 for five weeks earlier this year, when I went on an extended photo shoot overseas. I kept the printer in a cool, relatively humid environment, and it was fine. That's no guarantee that your experience will be positive, although I hope that it is.

I am not convinced that pumping ink through a clogged head represents an optimal approach to nozzle cleaning beyond minor blockages. Among other things, the pumping process can cause back-pressure in the ink lines, which in turn can make the nozzles suck up air or debris near the nozzle. Looking at the printer design, I can envision some design changes that might improve the nozzle clearing process, but at the expense of added complexity and cost. Like Mr. Segal, I am curious as to why certain Epson printers exhibit nozzle clogging much more than others. My 3800 rarely clogs, but the ink lines are very short, which would eliminate a whole class of potential problems with sedimentation.  I don't know why some 9900s seem to be worse than others.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2011, 12:53:38 pm »


I am not convinced that pumping ink through a clogged head represents an optimal approach to nozzle cleaning beyond minor blockages. Among other things, the pumping process can cause back-pressure in the ink lines, which in turn can make the nozzles suck up air or debris near the nozzle. Looking at the printer design, I can envision some design changes that might improve the nozzle clearing process, but at the expense of added complexity and cost. Like Mr. Segal, I am curious as to why certain Epson printers exhibit nozzle clogging much more than others. My 3800 rarely clogs, but the ink lines are very short, which would eliminate a whole class of potential problems with sedimentation.  I don't know why some 9900s seem to be worse than others.

It could also be that some 4900s are better than others too. There are "mysteries" about all this, different people having different experience. The environment in which my printer sits is moderately cool and moderately humid - perhaps I should say not very dry. I doubt environment explains what I encountered.

The consequences you mention about the cleaning cycles sound like the reasons why Epson Service had previously recommended to me that I run prints between cleaning cycles. This is supposed to prevent the kind of effects you mention.

I am interested in hearing more about your knowledge of the printer design that leads you to believe it could be improved upon in respect of the cleaning process. These issues have dogged Epson for years, and I can't imagine that they haven't put the best minds they have in the corporation trying to solve it. Unless the added complexity and cost you mention is a deterrent. At that point corporations need to decide whether it is more cost-effective to sell a machine for $XX more and keep people happy, or sell it for $XX less and incur user dissatisfaction from flawed performance. I suppose it depends on the size of "XX" relative to the amount of ruckus they expect from marketing technically imperfect equipment. But all that's speculation - as it's not clear to me what you have in mind by "design changes.........at added complexity and cost". Perhaps you could elaborate?
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DeanChriss

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2011, 03:11:26 pm »

I have left my 7900 unused for about 5 weeks  and a couple times for 4 weeks with no special preparations. Except for a couple normal cleaning cycles there were no issues at all. Don't worry about it, and I hope you recover quickly.
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Wayne Fox

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2011, 05:03:42 pm »

The 9900 will then be in a state of non-usage for probably 5 or 6 weeks. I'd like to get some input from the community concerning possible "preparations" for such an event.
I don't think there is anything special you can do.  Other than draining the printer, which would require a substantial amount of ink to recharge, I can't think of any other special option.  After a period of five to six weeks, you may experience some clogging, but I think the nozzles will clean up pretty easily.  this really isn't that long of a period to leave a printer sitting.

I suppose you might consider making sure the printer stays in a decently humid environment, keeping an active humidifier in the room with it, or if the room is too large or that is not possible, perhaps trying to get it in a plastic bag and using some method to keep the humidity in the bag up a little.
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2011, 06:00:29 pm »

I suppose you might consider making sure the printer stays in a decently humid environment, keeping an active humidifier in the room with it, or if the room is too large or that is not possible, perhaps trying to get it in a plastic bag and using some method to keep the humidity in the bag up a little.
I wouldn't do the plastic bag thing since that would lead to mold growing depending on the temperature of the room.  We had an example of just this happening with a printer on a recent post here.  Molds can be quite insidious and difficult to remove once established.
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davidh202

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2011, 08:02:01 pm »

Gary,
 all things considered, and knowing the reputation these printers have for clogging, what I personally would do is get a small bottle of the cleaning solution that this company sells.
 http://www.americaninkjetsystems.com/symphonic_inkjet_cleaning_fluid.html

to apply a couple of times prior to firing up the printer when you are ready to get back to printing.
If nothing else it should soften any possible clogs(if they should occurr) and reduce the number of cleanings needed to get going again.
I have no affiliation and I am seriously considering using this on a regular basis to do PMS on my 7900.
I have mentioned this a few times on the forum and have yet to hear from anyone as to it's effectiveness.

Wishing you a speedy recovery,
David
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Mark D Segal

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2011, 09:07:20 pm »

Gary,
 all things considered, and knowing the reputation these printers have for clogging, what I personally would do is get a small bottle of the cleaning solution that this company sells.
 http://www.americaninkjetsystems.com/symphonic_inkjet_cleaning_fluid.html

to apply a couple of times prior to firing up the printer when you are ready to get back to printing.
If nothing else it should soften any possible clogs(if they should occurr) and reduce the number of cleanings needed to get going again.
I have no affiliation and I am seriously considering using this on a regular basis to do PMS on my 7900.
I have mentioned this a few times on the forum and have yet to hear from anyone as to it's effectiveness.

Wishing you a speedy recovery,
David

You mention what you "would" do and what the product"should" do. This doesn't sound to me as if you have any personal experience actaully using it, seeing how it performs and perhaps more importantly, whether it does any collateral damage to print quality or the longevity of the print head over time. I would be wary of any of this kind of stuff unless Epson or another similarly experienced, authoritative source can share their experience using these products. Furthermore you will notice that none of their cartridges are compatible with the x900 Epson printers.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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davidh202

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2011, 09:27:55 pm »

"I have mentioned this a few times on the forum and have yet to hear from anyone as to it's effectiveness".


Ok Mark, I give!

With all due respect...
I dunno, sounds like they know what their doing to me!

http://www.americaninkjetsystems.com/American_Imaging_Scott_Saltman.html
http://www.americaninkjetsystems.com/Wide_Gamut_Inks_Epson_7900_9900.html
http://www.americaninkjetsystems.com/symphonic_inkjet_cleaning_fluid.html

quite a few more informative pages without, listing them ,and also the 'Manual' and more under the Maintenance Tab.

  It was not my intention to endorse their Ink system and Inks ,only their expertise on clogs and their answers to that problem

David


 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 10:22:40 pm by davidh202 »
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Mark D Segal

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2011, 10:40:57 pm »

They are selling a product. It could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, it could be a bust, or it could be a simple waste of money. Thanks for bringing its existence to our attention; beyond that, I'd really be interested in some third-party, authoritative and experience-based information about which it is, as the company itself would naturally be more prone to telling us it is the first, regardless of their expertise and how many pages of material they mount on their website. That's all I'm getting at. No offense meant or implied.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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gromit

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2011, 11:05:06 pm »

1. Turn it off
2. Throw a sheet over the printer to protect from dust etc
3. After power on, remove each cart and shake it (as per instructions on cart)
4. Don't worry
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JohnHeerema

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2011, 01:16:58 pm »

Quote
I am interested in hearing more about your knowledge of the printer design that leads you to believe it could be improved upon in respect of the cleaning process.

Hi Mark,

To me, it's quite an interesting question: "What would I do if Epson were to retain me to address the inkjet clogging problem?". Let me start off with the disclaimer that I don't have any special knowledge of how Epson makes their printers, except for reading the field service manual for the 9900.

To my mind, corrective design changes are best made on the basis of observed behaviour, rather than on conjecture – although there's certainly a role for imagination in the process.  I'd start by bringing in at least a dozen machines that had exhibited clogging during their service life, and I'd do a forensic teardown.

While the machines were still operable, I'd want to measure head and flow across the ink lines, and then measure delivery capacity, nozzle by nozzle, at the head. I'd want to quantify damper function too.

After that, I'd probably section the ink lines to quantify any pigment sedimentation, and I'd want to do some very careful cross sections of the heads, to determine the exact location of any clogs on a per-nozzle basis (for instance, is the entrance to the piezo pump clogged, is the clog at the exit portal, or is cavitation present?).

Without having done that, I'm in the land of conjecture. Here, I see two areas for potential changes: physical changes to the design, and firmware changes to the existing design.

Since it's easy to distribute firmware, and hard to distribute physical changes to the existing customer base, I'll just talk about potential firmware changes in this post (it will be plenty long enough already!).

Let's assume that we have a functioning ANC circuit. I don't know how sensitive it is, so let's assume that it's sensitive enough to detect a failure of x nozzles, where x lies between 1 and a dozen or so. I also don't know if the ANC circuit works by firing all of the nozzles in a channel at once, or if it works on a group of nozzles at a time. I also don't know the degree to which ANC operation can be modified by firmware.

My thought here is that once we have identified the presence of a clog, whether by using ANC or by the user reporting a gap in a nozzle check pattern, the first thing we want to know is exactly which nozzles have clogged.

As far as I know, all of the current cleaning cycles are based on firing every nozzle in a channel pair.  This has a potential issue, which is identified in the service manual, which is that the nozzles can pump out more ink than the ink lines can deliver to the head. This can lead to negative head in the ink lines, which can suck air back into the nozzles, and is the reason that Epson suggests that you do some printing between cleaning cycles.

At this point, I don't know of any reason to fire the nozzles that are known to be working properly during a cleaning cycle – to my mind, it makes more sense to only fire the nozzles which exhibit clogs. Firing all of the nozzles is a waste of ink, and taxes the ink delivery system. There might be a good reason for firing all of the nozzles, but I can't think of one at the moment.

I would probably create a cleaning cycle which only fired the clogged nozzles, and only fired them until ANC detected that they were delivering sufficient ink. If there were a lot of clogged nozzles, I would probably clean them in groups, to avoid ink waste.

If ANC doesn't currently have the ability to identify which nozzles are clogged, I'd be interested to know if a successive bisection  approach could be used to isolate specific nozzles - for instance, dividing the head into a top half and a bottom half, and then successively halving the section which delivered less link. If the sensitivity of the ANC circuit didn't allow for specific nozzle identification, I'd be interested to know if following the first bisection with a different bisection, like firing all of the even-numbered nozzles, and comparing with all of the odd-numbered nozzles, could further isolate which specific nozzles were clogged.

This might be a time-consuming process, but it could be done during idle time, and be interruptible to accommodate new print jobs. Here I'm thinking that the machine might be able to, with minimal ink usage, keep the heads unclogged all of the time, including periods of disuse.

One more firmware feature would be helpful, if it's not already present – a diagnostic log which identifies which nozzles have exhibited clogs during the service life, and how many nozzle firings it took to clear them. With the user's permission, this log could be transmitted back to Epson, where it could inform further design changes.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: 9900 Prep for Non-Usage
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2011, 02:20:32 pm »

I'm glad I asked. This is a new and interesting set of considerations. It would be good to hear from Epson engineers and service managers whether any of these ideas have been considered there, will be considered there, or won't be and why.
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