Where To Order Top Quality Prints?

[Steve Weldon]

Now that I'm back from Thailand and living in the states I need to find a lab to order top quality prints.

All I could find in Thailand was the huge color laser machines and they were "ok", and that was pushing it.  For sure they were inexpensive and fast.  If I needed a quality print I made them myself, otherwise for the market there the laser prints were fine.

Now, I'm in the immediate need of 20x30 and 20x24 prints and I'm wondering who your favorite labs are and if you have the links?  I'm not yet ready to invest in a large printer and the necessary supplies.. but maybe in the next year.

What I'd really like is chemical prints.

I'm also not up to speed on the subject.  It's something I haven't had to deal with in six years so I'm sure there's a lot out there I haven't kept up with, so feel free to educate..

Thank you!

[neile]

When you say "chemical prints" I assume you mean prints on paper like Fuji Super Gloss and the like? If so, www.westcoastimaging.com is my favourite place. Not cheap, but excellent quality.

If you want inkjet prints, many of us run printing businesses. Mine is www.danecreekprinting.com. Rob's is www.lightroom.com. I'm sure there are others.

Neil

[Steve Weldon]

Thank you.  Yes, West Coast is doing exactly what I was hoping for.

The question is, how much has the quality of inkjets changed in the last 6-8 years?  How do they compare to chemical prints?  Or is there a good source to read about the differences?

I'm looking to make some large prints for display in my home, just for myself.. and if they turn out right I'll be looking for some sources to print/mount some of my best from the last ten years to see how they sell at local events so economy is probably more important at this point.  Also, in my home I display my prints between thin sheets of UV plexiglass on standoffs.. so curious what paper type would be recommended? 

This is an area I'm really out of touch on so no scrap of information is too small.  I've been using local printers (to Bangkok) which are all laser color and never that happy with the results.  In fact, the place I used for the last 4-5 years I used only because they allowed me to hand tweak the colors on their machines.. they hadn't been profiled since the day they were installed.  If I needed a special print for a gift to a client or whatever.. I'd brought my 2200 over with me with a nice selection of papers and a supply of inks.. so I'm familiar with this equipment.

Thank you.

[neile]

There's a world of difference between inkjets today and inkjets from 6-8 years ago. For fine art prints, pigment inkjets these days are amazing, and you have an incredible range of papers to pick from. No more being limited to glossy, super glossy, or pearl. If you're doing a lot of them it's hard to beat the economics of it too: you can buy a printer for not much money and do the prints yourself.

The look is, however, somewhat different. If you really want that super glossy look and archival quality you pretty much have to go wet process from a place like West Coast Imaging (which, by the way, offers cheaper versions of the same quality stuff through Aspen Creek Photo if you are happy with them just sending straight to the printer through automated ROES software).

Inkjet printing places like mine, Rob's, and others run by people that hang out here offer quite a bit of hands-on assistance in ensuring you wind up with the best possible print from your image, instead of just straight chucking it to the printer and hoping for the best. Quite a bit different than what you experienced in Bangkok

Neil

[KenBabcock]

If you haven't kept up in 6 years then you have no idea how far along inkjet technology has come.

Our printers today are way better than any lab you can find.  I have a Canon IPF8300, Epson 9880 (soon to be replaced with an Epson 9900), couple smaller 17" and 13" and a few older 7600 and 10600.  The 8300, 9880 and my soon to be new 9900 will all blow any lab print out of the water.

If this is something you want to become involved in again I'd suggest you check out the new line of Canon and Epson.  Sorry, never used a large format HP so I can't rave about it or dis it.

If you're only looking for the occasional print done here and there then many folks on this board have small printing businesses and most of us use many of the same models.

[Rob Reiter]

By most measurable standards, pigment inkjet printing has passed what's possible with material like Fuji Crystal Archive-larger color gamut, longer life, less flimsy paper and far more choices of surfaces for printing. The Fuji Super Glossy surface, reminiscent of Cibachrome, can't be matched in an inkjet print (yet) and if your attachment to the 'look' of a particular surface outweighs gamut/archival issues, then that's a personal choice.

Certainly, the best advice to offer before you spend a lot of money on prints is to try at least one of each process and see for yourself. But inkjet printing seems to be more popular these days, for the above reasons and perhaps, others.

[Steve Weldon]

If you're doing a lot of them it's hard to beat the economics of it too: you can buy a printer for not much money and do the prints yourself.

Inkjet printing places like mine, Rob's, and others run by people that hang out here offer quite a bit of hands-on assistance in ensuring you wind up with the best possible print from your image, instead of just straight chucking it to the printer and hoping for the best. Quite a bit different than what you experienced in Bangkok

Neil

a.  I was thinking along the lines of 24 inch prints.. 20x24, 24x30.. these printers, at least in the past, were quite pricey.  Especially once set up with bigger ink tanks, a RIP, etc.  Have they dropped in price during this period?

b.  Processing for printing, at least on my 2200, was different from processing for display viewing.  How does this compare for wet printing?

c.  At times I could hardly believe what I experienced in Bangkok, and I'm talking about the printing..  There, it's all about economics.  Most aren't used to paying more than a 10-15 baht (20-30 cents) for a 8x10 and not much more for a 11x14.  When I got involved with the shop who did most of my printing I quickly learned 99% of their business is printing files people took on compact point and shoots and were straight from the camera.  They couldn't understand why it was important for me to get the correct colors or why when my shadow detail went missing I'd get upset.  But to their credit they did allow me to 'eyeball' adjust one of their four printers (a huge 25 foot long monster) on the workstation side of things, and build a profile.. That was when they admitted they hadn't paid the guy to profile their system since they had their original contract which had long expired.  Basically, their customers were more interested in getting a bunch of prints cheap and quick, than quality.  It seemed to work for the shop and most of their customers.

A bump in my work was educating commercial customers.  They didn't know what they were missing, until you showed them.  And then they didn't care, until you brought a few magazines and pointed out their competition knew.. then they cared.  It was disconcerting when their AD's didn't have a clue, and I didn't work with but a handful of commercial clients.

The part that hurts.. there are many photographers still shooting medium format film who are handing over big beautiful negatives.. only to lose most of the detail on the dreadful color lasers.  No drum scanners either. 

[Steve Weldon]

If you haven't kept up in 6 years then you have no idea how far along inkjet technology has come.

Thank you.  I've spent a good part of the day reading threads in this print forum and learning a lot.  The information is fragmented, but it's there.. and it's great to read about peoples experiences.

[neile]

a) To go that big you'll need something like the Canon 6300. It's currently $1999 after $500 mail in rebate. The equivalent Epson is, I think, the 7890, and is $1599 after mail in rebate. Both are 24" wide inkjet printers with the latest generation inks and support for roll paper.

b) Same in all cases. You have to custom process your image for the target output device, whether it's screen, wet process, or inkjet.

Neil

[louoates]

I strongly urge you to print yourself. You will be able to do much more experimenting with different papers and image approaches. Plus your costs would be so much lower your work will be more salable.
I'd also strongly recommend you consider a larger, 42" wide format printer. There are a lot of used 9800 Epson, plus many other brands and models, out there being sold by high-quantity printers who are upgrading. There are many folks with 24" wide printers who are severely limited when trying to print gallery wrap canvasses. When I was printing for some 45 artists for art show resales more than half wanted canvasses larger than what a 24" wide printer could handle. My galleries keep requesting larger and larger canvasses so I'm happy to be able to print them myself for cost and quality reasons.

[Steve Weldon]

Thank you everyone.  With your advice and a few days or reading past threads and current reviews I feel I'm 'somewhat' up to date on printers and printing.  I've decided two things.

a.  I'll be sending some files in for wet printing, and the same files for inkjet printing, and I'll have time to evaluate.

b.   Buying a 24 inch or bigger printer is being seriously considered.  I tend to spend a lot of time reading reviews, doing costs analysis, and investigating alternatives.  It will be several months before I make the purchase. 

This leaves me with two questions:

1.  What would be the basics of processing for a wet print vs. inkjet?

2.  Are there any new printers coming to market (24-48") in the next 2-4 months I should consider?

[neile]

1.  What would be the basics of processing for a wet print vs. inkjet?

I suggest taking a look at the "Camera to Print" video series that Michael and Jeff produced. It'll give you all sorts of details in video form on what it takes to prepare files for print. Version 1 of the tutorial is out now, version 2 just had the first chunk of content posted and will trickle out over the next month or so.

2.  Are there any new printers coming to market (24-48") in the next 2-4 months I should consider?

Both Canon and Epson just released new models in this range so it'll be a while since there are newer versions.

Neil