Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: 4K 120fps 3400mm  (Read 5373 times)

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

Graham Mitchell

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2281
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2011, 07:16:33 pm »

Logged

theguywitha645d

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 970
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2011, 08:55:42 pm »

Actually, some bad math. 600mm x 2 is 1200mm focal length. 1 degree and 45 arc minutes is 1.75 degrees. To say it is a one degree angle of view is really bad rounding errors.
Logged

ChristopherBarrett

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2011, 09:07:37 pm »

What's most significant about Vincent's post is that he was using a pre-production Canon Eos mount on the Epic. Very cool!

CB
Logged

bcooter

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2011, 01:49:39 am »

belongs here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?board=25.0

Graham,

I have a video I shot in medium format (well almost medium format at it was a p21+).

http://russellrutherfordphoto.com/#/Motion%20Imagery/Motion%20Imagery/2

I keep looking for a section titled "video shot with almost medium format" and I can't find it.

Would you please ask Michael to add such a heading.

Your assistance is greatly appreciated.


BC
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2011, 06:56:10 am »

Graham,

I have a video I shot in medium format (well almost medium format at it was a p21+).

http://russellrutherfordphoto.com/#/Motion%20Imagery/Motion%20Imagery/2

I keep looking for a section titled "video shot with almost medium format" and I can't find it.

Would you please ask Michael to add such a heading.

Your assistance is greatly appreciated.


BC

Nice stop motion. This is getting popular in fashion web sites. Interesting how the music holds it all together, almost, in yours. Continuity seems to be the hard part.

Edmund

PS. I think the new forum section title should be "Swinging Big Lens" :)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 06:57:47 am by eronald »
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

fredjeang

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2011, 07:59:15 am »

And the good news for James if his studio finally goes Avid is that for this kind of work Avid is just so easy. Once you have edited the images in PS the process in Avid is completly automatized  and parametrable. With the images ready in PS and the music ready, it's not even 5 minutes to reach the final render.
Logged

ChristopherBarrett

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2011, 09:40:04 am »

Fred... can you elaborate on that process?  I downloaded the Avid trial but couldn't get past the GUI.
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2011, 09:48:38 am »

Fred,
 Do tell us more!

Edmund

Fred... can you elaborate on that process?  I downloaded the Avid trial but couldn't get past the GUI.
Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

fredjeang

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2011, 11:02:37 am »

Fred... can you elaborate on that process?  I downloaded the Avid trial but couldn't get past the GUI.

Yes,

If you need a time of 1 or more seconds per image

You need to go to your project windowns and clic on the "settings" button (the one on the right of the "bins" button)

Then, on the settings list you have to find the "Import", click on it

then on your pop-up you should be by default on "image" and you'll notice that in the bottom there is a setting called "Frame import duration"
Type the duration you want and click OK

Then, import all your images into the bin

Then drag them all into the timeline. they should have all exactly the lengh you decided into the setting project.

If you need each still being a frame

Again on the import tool, you need to active the option "Autodetect sequentially numbered files", but caution: remember that it implies that your images in your folder have to have a logical suite name like 001, 002, 003 etc... Bridge does that in a second. That's before going into Avid.

If you need each still being more than a frame

if you need each image to last 2 frames, all you have to do is duplicate in batch and rename in batch the original folder, etc...following this logic. nota: the fact that you ingest duplicated images will not make a bigger final project.

So a minimum of preparation (you have to know what you will do before) has to be done in the folder,naming and-or duplicating according to your needs but that's very easy and fast.

ps: to avoid issues, if you know that a folder will be used sequencialy, just rename all the files in batch before going to any editor.

important to remember: If the "Autodetect sequentially numbered files" is selected, it will have priority over the first system explained above.


You can also apply transitions in batch between each images, have a look here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/GDVTutorials#p/c/10/EXl6epwecK0


Isn't that a way to create a good slide show of still images portfolio? Animated with music or comments or whatever.

Edit: Chris I realised that my link was corrupted, don't know if you saw it before I had the time to correct it but it's done, now the link drives you to the right place.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 11:32:08 am by fredjeang »
Logged

ChristopherBarrett

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2011, 11:39:09 am »

Fred,

I'm working with Premier right now because of its excellent Red Raw support.  Have you also tried Premier and can you tell me your thoughts on the Pros/Cons with each NLE?  I'm taking this week off and plan on diving into my Resolve tutorials and really wrap my head around it.  Grading with it and a Wave Panel are proving vey fast and powerful!

Thanks Much!

CB
Logged

fredjeang

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2011, 11:47:46 am »

Fred,

I'm working with Premier right now because of its excellent Red Raw support.  Have you also tried Premier and can you tell me your thoughts on the Pros/Cons with each NLE?  I'm taking this week off and plan on diving into my Resolve tutorials and really wrap my head around it.  Grading with it and a Wave Panel are proving vey fast and powerful!

Thanks Much!

CB

Really honestly Chris, I think both softwares are really good, each one with its strengh and wicknesses but I don't think it will be really interesting that you start to re-learn from scratch if you also have to dig into DaVinci.
In the end that's a LOT of time that we don't have.

There is a feature in Avid that allows you to do Red files color correction in the timeline, I mean real Raw datas color correction. But if you go Resolve what's the point? You'll do everything in DaVinci anyway.

I think that the real strengh of Avid is that this is the standart so you'll have very little surprises with TVs and Cine studios. But Adobe is also very known and present in cine and I don't think that it's a real need to start a learning curve from zero if you already use Premiere.

The weakness of Avid is that it works very bad with AVCHD. That's Avid politics, they don't consider it a suitable format for editing.

I used Premiere until CS4 and the workflow is more intuitive with Premiere. It costed me horrors to get used to Avid, but curiously, once you are used to its particular workflow you don't want to change.

But I'm asking a question, wich is this: how to find time? A day is 24hrs and are we making images and directing movies...and...editing? The problem is that's not PS anymore. Where is the limit where we can also be the camera operator, the editor, the color artist etc...like in stills? It seems more and more clear to me that delegating and building a fixed team addicted to your style is the road.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 12:06:58 pm by fredjeang »
Logged

ChristopherBarrett

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2011, 12:15:31 pm »

Yeah, tell me about it Fred.  I need to schedule time off for training just to keep up with software.  Even if I do end up delegating some work, I feel that I need some proficiency with the software so that I am shooting the best way.  If I didn't know Photoshop, and know how to shoot for the retouching, my Post-Production would be a nightmare.

But, indeed, there are never enough hours.  Jeffrey and I are chatting about co-writing a book on Architectural Photography... I'm gonna need 36 hours in a day!

CB
Logged

fredjeang

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2011, 01:05:08 pm »

Indeed. And best luck for the book.

I won't like to come back to Kodachrome, no way. But instead of this or that workshop or gear-software training, I think that what we need most with the digi workflow + convergence are time-management trainings with gurus from wall-street or very stressfull atmosphere. How to compress time??
Logged

bcooter

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2011, 01:53:00 pm »


snip

There is a feature in Avid that allows you to do Red files color correction in the timeline, I mean real Raw datas color correction. But if you go Resolve what's the point? You'll do everything in DaVinci anyway.

snip

Time is vital, no doubt.

I'm not advocating Final Cut Pro 7, it's just the devil I've known for 7 years.

The thing is finding the time to make the switch. 

Now as far as what FCP7 can do, it is pretty amazing.  To do a still cut frame movie you can set the import to any speed .25 a second if you wish and though it's not as fast as AVID it is more full featured once you get past editing.

And with newer computers it's ok fast.  Not real time all the time, but I'm running a new Thunderbolt I7 Imac on the road and on a series of videos we're finishing they have about 9 timelines, run two minutes and have about 75 cuts including titles and everything has filters and every piece moves through tracking.  I can render the whole 2 minutes in about 11 minutes and as I've said that's not real time but considering the piece it's fast.

As I mentioned we're now in the middle of shooting 10 videos in multiple countries, traveling throughout Southeast Asia.

The last two days we've shot 1 terabyte of raw files from the RED cameras, not including the Sony and some 5d2.

We averaged 28 scenes a day mostly with dialog.

I can't begin to explain how exhausted everyone is.

The workflow we have down well, using real polaroids for identifying each scene and our custom dit station to copy and process overnight.

Given that the backend editing will be the monster hiding in the bushes.

Just sorting through 280, scenes, 7 to 10 takes each and selecting cuts will be a full week, before we get down to serious editing.

Would I go to Avid if I knew it . . . Yes, but finding the time . . . that's the hard part.

Now to keep this relevant and make it "approved" to be in the almost medium format section, the workflow, learning curve and post process of RED raw is very much like the early days of Digital still cameras.'

Shooting dialog . . . now that's a different matter.

IMO

BC
Logged

fredjeang

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2011, 02:57:28 pm »

Yes, again, time is our worst enemy because that's all very nice all those new softwares, those updated etc...but in the end who finds the time to just a new upgrade?

It's not rare at all that a pro like Cooter is still using a software that they are familiar with because in the middle of the tempest (and I know what it means when motion's involved) the last thing we want to is unstable or new workflow.

It's funny because here in Lu-La we see the latest of everything this industry produce, but I don't know you guys in the US, here the studios are equiped with oldies, old things but things that everybody knows how to make it work properly.

About the NLE, I've been following for some time quite a lot the RedUsers forums and there are many people that are using just one software for everything, like Smoke. They don't even get Avid or Premiere. In the end the workflow is simplified because they do their cutting, grading and basic FX in Smoke and if bigger artillery is needed they send it anyway in a FX studio.

I'm not far to join the Cooter's view and work with image sequences instead. (PS video style but with Nuke) I find the workflow much much friendly user and as an experienced filmaker pointed in the motion section, all you need is space but not that much cpu. Those video softwares are great but they also imply a style that I find tremendously unappropriate unless you do tv shows and then lots and lots of hours just to get the very basics.
So, or we shoot, or we learn softwares, but both are not very compatible nowdays.

Knowing that James is not really a human being in terms of work capacity because I can't figure out how he finds the time to also edit, it gives a pretty clear idea that for the average human being those task accumulated are out of range.

Every single day new chalenges and ideas come but if the equipment is obsolete each time earlier, I think this is going to be just ignored by the profession because we need stability and simplicity.

We have to be more versatile than ever and knowing almost everything. But we are not machines.

The RedWorkflow is indeed much better in that aspect.






Logged

ChristopherBarrett

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2011, 04:10:31 pm »

I think we should organize a convergence conference to get together and brainstorm. I vote we hold it in  Amsterdam.
Logged

fredjeang

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2011, 04:39:04 pm »

I vote for Tahiti or the Emirates
Logged

eronald

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6642
    • My gallery on Instagram
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2011, 05:48:36 pm »

Am I wrong, or did a lot of the old feature films we see as "great works" got done with 2 minutes per day going towards the final copy?

Edmund

Time is vital, no doubt.

I'm not advocating Final Cut Pro 7, it's just the devil I've known for 7 years.

The thing is finding the time to make the switch. 

Now as far as what FCP7 can do, it is pretty amazing.  To do a still cut frame movie you can set the import to any speed .25 a second if you wish and though it's not as fast as AVID it is more full featured once you get past editing.

And with newer computers it's ok fast.  Not real time all the time, but I'm running a new Thunderbolt I7 Imac on the road and on a series of videos we're finishing they have about 9 timelines, run two minutes and have about 75 cuts including titles and everything has filters and every piece moves through tracking.  I can render the whole 2 minutes in about 11 minutes and as I've said that's not real time but considering the piece it's fast.

As I mentioned we're now in the middle of shooting 10 videos in multiple countries, traveling throughout Southeast Asia.

The last two days we've shot 1 terabyte of raw files from the RED cameras, not including the Sony and some 5d2.

We averaged 28 scenes a day mostly with dialog.

I can't begin to explain how exhausted everyone is.

The workflow we have down well, using real polaroids for identifying each scene and our custom dit station to copy and process overnight.

Given that the backend editing will be the monster hiding in the bushes.

Just sorting through 280, scenes, 7 to 10 takes each and selecting cuts will be a full week, before we get down to serious editing.

Would I go to Avid if I knew it . . . Yes, but finding the time . . . that's the hard part.

Now to keep this relevant and make it "approved" to be in the almost medium format section, the workflow, learning curve and post process of RED raw is very much like the early days of Digital still cameras.'

Shooting dialog . . . now that's a different matter.

IMO

BC

Logged
If you appreciate my blog posts help me by following on https://instagram.com/edmundronald

bcooter

  • Guest
Re: 4K 120fps 3400mm
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2011, 10:16:05 pm »

Yes, again, time is our worst enemy because that's all very nice all those new softwares, those updated etc...but in the end who finds the time to just a new upgrade?



This is a large project with a good budget and I shopped the editorial around.

Just never got the numbers I was looking for, either too low for the expectations or too high with no confirmed price, which always makes me nervous.

In fact the editorial house I was going to chose was working on another project for us and since I had to spend more time in the booth and in our studio cutting the story for them to cut the story, It didn't make sense to spend the same amount of our studio resources to outsource and pay.

On this project since I had already cut the 1 minute test video for style  and know every inch of footage, it just made sense  to do the first segment in house.  

I may outsource the remaining videos, depending on schedule.

This really is the same thing as with stills where some people do their own post work, some don't and some split the duties.

Just like crews, the old ways of 45 people have changed and we shot a mostly 2 and 3 camera project with a crew of 14 and Edmund is semi right, a film day use to equal 2 minutes, but now, at least for this project 4 days shooting equals 8 minutes, so somewhat double the work with 1/2 to 1/3 the crew.  

That's the world of digital in stills and motion.

There is a paradigm shift in the process of advertising.   In 2007 this project would have been a still project with two or three retouchers working overtime to meet the deadline.  The cameras would have been phase and Canons, now their RED and Sony and Canon.

The retoucher has been partially displaced by editors and effects houses.

But just like everything in life, it's become faster, more immediate and more adaptable from web to in-store, print to broadcast.

The style of these videos are motion to freeze stills, where the voice continues, the scene moves to a split screen and continues.  The videos will be 80 seconds to 3 minutes, though once all the dust settles and the first deadlines are met, the best ROI for the client will be 15 second web spots where the images will be still or motion . . . probably stills from the motion footage.

On that note, I know this forum is based on stills but for a long time the medium format section involved a lot of professional image makers and we all know that the world of marketing has greatly changed from print to electronic and will continue.

This isn't a bad thing for an artist and business person, it's just an expanded role.

It's funny, as much push back as there is from photographers about the thought of shooting motion/video, (whatever you want to call it) was exactly the same response (from mostly the same people) about retouching in photoshop and shooting digital.

We all know how long that push back lasted.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 10:19:26 pm by bcooter »
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up