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Author Topic: New to using canvas, some questions  (Read 3263 times)

Alan Smallbone

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New to using canvas, some questions
« on: July 12, 2011, 02:23:01 pm »

Hi all,

I have been printing now with Epson 4880 for awhile and love it. I want to try some canvas, so I bought a trial roll of the Breathing Color Chromata white and their gallery wrap trial kit, along with a pint of the Timeless coating. I have some newbie questions.

1. What is the difference with their Glamour II coating and the Timeless coating? Are there better coatings out there to use? They just seem a little expensive but maybe that is just I have not looked much.

2. Is their stretching system worth it in the long run? How much does the canvas need to be stretched? I would love to see how someone does the stretching and what my options are if there is someone in Southern California that would be willing to let me watch and ask questions.  :)

3. Since I am limited in width to 17" is it possible to use a thinner type stretcher bars? In other words I am trying to maximize my image size.

4. What other canvas is worth trying? And what other stretcher bars are worth looking at? I know these are both open ended quesitions, but I am limited in size so I thought maybe I could narrow it down to what I want to try.


Thanks a lot.

Alan
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Alan Smallbone
Orange County, CA

natas

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 03:03:35 pm »

Don't take this the wrong way, but pick up the phone and call breathing color. I did when I was in your shoes and they answered every question I had. It's well worth your time to call them...trust me
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Alan Smallbone

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 03:44:58 pm »

A valid point and well taken, they can at least help with the differences between the two coatings, but I was also looking for some feedback on alternatives. Thanks for responding.

Alan
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Alan Smallbone
Orange County, CA

Robcat

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 04:40:50 pm »

1. What is the difference with their Glamour II coating and the Timeless coating? Are there better coatings out there to use? They just seem a little expensive but maybe that is just I have not looked much.

The Glamour II needs to be diluted with water and the Timeless does not. I've found the Glamour to be easier to roll than Timeless (agreement from BC tech), but Timeless is easy to spray.

4. What other canvas is worth trying? And what other stretcher bars are worth looking at? I know these are both open ended quesitions, but I am limited in size so I thought maybe I could narrow it down to what I want to try.

I like the BC Lyve canvas.

Alan
Rob P
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dgberg

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2011, 06:58:54 pm »

Breathing Colors Chromata White and Lyve are 2 of the best canvases on the market today.
Lexjets Sunset Select matte is probably the best quality for the price at around .92 a square foot.
If your using BC's wrap system you do not need to worry about stretching issues. Watch the videos put out by BC.
If you want to see stretching machine demonstrations go to YouTube and google Gallery Stretcher Machine.
Alan hit on the differences between BC's two varnishes. I use both but like Glamor II the most. Just a tad easier to spray and roll.
The pricing is moderately high but can be reduced substancially by purchasing larger quantities.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 07:01:41 pm by Dan Berg »
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neile

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2011, 07:51:01 pm »

3. Since I am limited in width to 17" is it possible to use a thinner type stretcher bars? In other words I am trying to maximize my image size.

I'll warn you in advance that even using the thinnest stretcher bar you can get you'll be very limited in how big you can go. A 17" wide printer can only reasonably do a 12" wide finished canvas wrap. You lose 1.25"x2 (3" total) to the wrap, and then I'd say another inch on each edge to wrap and staple (2" total) (I know the videos don't always show this, but I really think you need to do it to keep the back edges from looking dumb).

Neil
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Alan Smallbone

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 12:24:55 am »

Thanks everyone for all the great answers, I need to stop nattering about all the details and just start running some canvas.  ;D

Alan
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Alan Smallbone
Orange County, CA

irvweiner

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 10:38:56 pm »

snoleopard, I started printing on canvas with my 3880 a few months ago using the trial rolls from BC. I am very satisfied with my prints and gallery fw's. I should be they were awarded 1st and 2nd in our camera club's competition.

The suggestion I want to pass on is to search thru this forum very thoroughly--it contains much valuable info on canvas printing, mounting and framing and the whole topic of sealing, coating, spraying. Plus the multi aspirin topic of getting your (my) media to feed properly in our printers--front, rear, auto and platen space suggestions.

I'm active contributor to several photo forums but have not seen any forum cover this topic so completely--I thank all of you!!!

irv weiner

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Alan Smallbone

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2011, 12:29:56 am »

Thanks a lot Irv, I will continue on my searches of the forum, that is a good idea.

Alan
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Alan Smallbone
Orange County, CA

Photo Op

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 12:09:07 pm »

Plus the multi aspirin topic of getting your (my) media to feed properly in our printers--front, rear, auto and platen space suggestions.

irv weiner


Irv- how did you solve the feed issue?

Dave
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David

Alan Smallbone

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2011, 02:33:34 pm »

Irv,

Another question, I thought the 3880 did not take roll paper? Did you find a way to use roll paper or is that fact missing from the Epson ads?

Alan

Irv- how did you solve the feed issue?

Dave
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Alan Smallbone
Orange County, CA

irvweiner

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2011, 06:39:00 pm »

Dave & Allan,

The 3880 does not take roll paper directly. Epson doesn't realty push canvas media for the 3880. The max thickness for media is 1.5mm or 0.059 in (50 mils). The few brands that I have used so far are from Breathing Color and Duratex, media thickness of 19--23 mils were most successful. I am still trying to obtain samples form other mfgrs and further open the door for increased usage of Canvas on the superb 3880.

For Breathing Color: Lyve, 800M and Chroma White

For DuraTex: Can701 and Can 1801 (smooth coat, fine detail!)

Addressing the use of roll paper or canvas on the 3880: 17 in. wide roll paper cuts easily, depending on the stock 'curling' can be a problem. After cutting a reqd length, I will reverse roll that cut sheet onto a 3" dia. tube. The tube will have a 36 in. length of fabric mounted to it and the cut paper is placed on it and rolled.  After several minutes, it is 'decurled' enough to print on. After the print has dried it may be necessary to 'decurl' once more--this step permits easier mounting/framing of your print.

Canvas is a bit more touchy to cut to size, my inexpensive Dahle rotary cutter can't handle the canvas but cleanly cuts 6 shts of bond paper (21 mil). After cutting it may be necessary to 'decurl' the canvas to keep the 3880 happy.

For paper and canvas it is quite necessary to keep your working edges square, this is done to ensure that the 3880 properly aligns your cut sheet 'squarely' and not an angle. For a large print length the misalignment becomes visible.

Feeding the cut paper sht requires the same care as normal sht stock, printer feed is not a problem. For canvas, even at 19 mil, achieving the proper feed can be more or more tedious. In fact, steps must be taken before the attempted feed. Carefully examine the working edges of the canvas and trim all 'fibers'--I have learned the hard way how these fibers can end up on the canvas surface preventing the ink from laying down properly and leaving fine 'hairlines'. A simple effect 'cleansing' can be easily achieved by 'walking' the edges close to a lit candle flame.

My breakthru in feeding the canvas came from attempting to recover the 'stuck sht--if you press the 'eject sheet' button on the printer menu region (it's the South Pole button) the sheet is commanded to eject-but doesn't. the rollers just turn.  I found that if I place the sheet in the rear auto feed (not the rear manual feed) and press the eject button the sheet will feed to it's proper startup position and stop (cannot find this info in the manual). At this point, you can check to see if the alignment is acceptable. Carefully examine the right hand side of the canvas, check it's 'verticallity' as best as you can--if you uncomfortable at all repeat the feed. Yes, you may have several poor feeds before a good one, but at least that sheet wont be wasted as it could be if it were fed from auto feed following a print command. When you have a 'good' feed (19-21 mil often does it) press print and pray!  The suggested rear (manual) feed did work (sometimes) but wouldn't me to print small canvas test prints for color check--I can stick a 4x6 into the rear auto feed, press eject, see the feed and print or retry.

Bottom line: Rolled media, paper or canvas can be used on the 3880--when cut to size of your choice or the max size accepted by the 3880---17x37.4 Keep your media thickness below 21 mils. The media vendors try to supply print profiles for Photo Blk and Matte Blk, my Colormunki has generated very good profiles. Feeding the canvas into the 3880 requires TLC, tis a pity Epson didn't design the roller system to do it properly. For large size prints cleanliness is mandatory, especially so when running canvas media.

Is it worth it? Artistically, Yes!!   Financially, from several vendors you can save 15-25% over the pre-cut shts, more important is that some roll media is not available in sheets. Breathing Color's (paper) Vibrant Luster has a more pronounced Luster surface that sparkles and maintains great detail.

For much more info on canvas printing, mounting, framing and protective surface sealing visit Naturesacapes, their  Printing and Photofinishing forum:  http://www.naturescapes.net/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=44&sid=3859adf47b1c4a839cd915de6cb77037

I hope this info has been of some assistance.
irv weiner
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dgberg

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2011, 07:43:08 pm »

To add, the most important easy fix for feeding canvas in this printer is to add the paper leader to the leading canvas edge. Works great although I have not had to do it for several years with the addition of my new printers.





« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 05:49:43 am by Dan Berg »
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MrIconoclast

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Re: New to using canvas, some questions
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2011, 01:47:31 pm »

I have used both Glamour and Timeless.   I find the Timeless much easier to use. 
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