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Author Topic: Phase one IQ160  (Read 8837 times)

issa

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Phase one IQ160
« on: July 07, 2011, 09:12:23 am »

Has anybody had delivery of their IQ160 yet, and any feedback please. I have been told they started to ship few weeks ago and to expect mine in the comiong weeks.
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Issa

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Wayne Fox

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2011, 03:54:23 pm »

guy mancuso over at getDPI.com has received his and has posted extensively about it over on their medium format forum.

That being said, I assume you may already know the IQ160 is not really "new".  It's a p65+ wrapped up in a new enclosure with new tech.  Image quality and sensor characteristics are pretty much identical to the p65+ which has proven to be a very good back.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 12:22:28 am by Wayne Fox »
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Guy Mancuso

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2011, 08:39:50 am »

Here just in case you wanted to read more. Its a sweetheart

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27806
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issa

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2011, 09:38:32 am »

Thanks Wayne / Guy

Yes, by the looks of it is a beauty, I am a new comer to MF Digital, coming across from 5x4. I am amazed by your shots, retaining full highlights and shadows despite being taken during very sunny days.

I am looking forward to receving my IQ160 along with 645 DF and 80mm schneider lens. I also plan to use this on an arca 6x9 tech camera, for movements.

Guy - Normally I get about 4 or 4.5 stops of latitude using velvia, whilst on paper the IQ160 is 12, what is real world numbers like. How much Highlights/shadows can you retain from mid point.

Issa

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Issa

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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2011, 10:45:15 am »

Any discussion of the number of stops is a black-hole. Are you going to count the last stop where you can make out tone better than random-chance, are you going to count the last stop where color is still accurate, are you going to count the last stop where the noise isn't ugly, are you going to count the last highlight that can show a smooth transition on paper or screen, do you do so with noise reduction on or off, on what settings, with what sharpening?

Suffice it to say "a bunch" and then go shoot for yourself :-), especially since you'll have your own soon. Bracket for you first few shoots for safety/learning and I'm guessing pretty quickly you'll learn you don't need to bracket very often.

Some of the magic of Velvia was that it had a small dynamic range and therefore had a lot of inherent contrast/punch. It could take a relatively flat scene and make it come to life. Of course it also meant you couldn't use Velvia in a lot of scenes because the shadows or highlights would clip like crazy. The IQ160 has good dynamic range and color/tonal fidelity in the highlights and shadows. But just as importantly the file will hold up to a lot of abuse so if you want to greatly increase the contrast the tonal transitions will still be smooth.

Check out the HDR via LCC trick in C1 to tap some of that reserve dynamic range for punchy, Velvia-ish images without clipping highlights (in a single shot).

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 10:50:18 am by dougpetersonci »
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Guy Mancuso

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2011, 01:38:50 pm »

Like Doug said you could bounce around all day on this topic. But I think the real bottom line with MF digital and these Dalsa sensor is in a lot of cases the DR is so wide I actually have to add some black in to get the punch back in, which is not a normal thing to do in normal digital capture or even film for that matter. For me here in AZ outside this is huge as the shadows are very deep and highlights very bright and many times I don't even get a true black clipped so i will go in and actually clip some to give it a little punch. I can't tell you how huge this is and one good reason alone to go MF digital. Also C1 and these sensors can bring just about anything back into play if you get to hot or to underexposed. In other words you have a ton of leeway here. Velvia you have just about zero leeway and this by far has much higher DR, no question in my mind. You will be very pleased when you start shooting it and getting the system down to your taste but you will see the range that I can guarantee. I hate numbers to answer this kind of question since the reality is it is meaningless but once you start shooting this back you will most certainly see your range and in the real world that is all that counts. Good luck and hope you get it soon. Worth the wait.

To answer a question yes it plays right in the same ballpark as the P65+ back. I think it maybe very very slightly better but I can't prove it so ignore this comment. LOL
I think it has a touch extra DR or least I would like to believe so. Treading very lightly on this one. LOL
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 01:41:23 pm by Guy Mancuso »
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EricWHiss

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2011, 02:12:22 pm »

I tested the DR of the Aptus 12 which is supposed to be close to the IQ 180 which is supposed to be close to or a bit more than the 160.   It's in one of the comparison threads here that I posted in this forum a while back.  I'd really like to compare the IQ 180 against the Aptus-ii 12 to see if there is any difference.
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Guy Mancuso

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2011, 02:22:07 pm »

There is a little more DR in the IQ 180 over the 160 and if I had to give it a conservative number I would say 1/2 stop. In all honesty you most likely wind up adding black anyway so the reality of it is kind of a waste since the DR is very high here to begin with. But like anyone else it would be nice to have more. LOL

Eric that would be a nice test between the two big guns . I suspect it would be pretty even though since they share the same sensor and also the share the same technology in C1 as well. But still it would be fun to see.

I think the bottom line here is we are at the top of the heap in these backs and any difference will not be earth shattering. Sure you will see some but not something to be even thought about that much.

 I know some are why more scientific and pixel peeping than me and thats great , knock yourself out. LOL
I'm a happy camper.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 02:26:55 pm by Guy Mancuso »
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EricWHiss

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2011, 03:37:20 pm »

Guy,
 I see that you do plenty of tests of your own, and I think anyone taking photography seriously needs to do their own especially if they are spending the kind of money that a 160 or 180 costs.   I like to quantify when I can because it makes subsequent comparisons easier.  If you or Jack are in the bay area - I could meet up and compare aptus 12 to IQ 180
Eric
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Guy Mancuso

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2011, 05:43:56 pm »

Actually Jack is in the Bay area and yes i like to with any new back run it through hell and see if there is anything I need to be careful about with it. I think it is a smart idea for folks to test this stuff out before hitting a clients door. For one it is nice to know what you bought and two just helps you understand what it can do in the field. I publish them for others to help them see and I hope it gives them some insight to what they want to buy. You are correct there is a lot of money going on here and the last thing you want is a 40k mistake.
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DeeJay

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2011, 06:10:55 pm »

I'm a blissfully happy P65+ owner. It's ridiculously good. And I understand it is the same as the IQ160 in terms of image quality so would definitely recommend it. Have also used a P45+ which seems a country mile off in quality compared to the P65+. I hear the IQ180 is another leap forward again and I look forward to getting my hands on one.
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Guy Mancuso

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2011, 06:17:37 pm »

I'll just add the UI is cool as can be and very useful so I went to the 160 but if I was more a studio shooter I would have just got a used P65+ which right now are about 22k used and frankly that is a smart buy. I love the IQ 180 but I think the balance point is this P65/IQ 160 sensor. Maybe more mpx than i need but its full frame so had no choice. I can deal with it. LOL
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DeeJay

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2011, 04:48:19 am »

Yes I agree. In the whole time I've been using one I haven't once shot with the LCD. Instead shooting tethered and viewing on a large monitor using C1.
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siebel

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2011, 05:48:21 am »

I tested the DR of the Aptus 12 which is supposed to be close to the IQ 180 which is supposed to be close to or a bit more than the 160.   It's in one of the comparison threads here that I posted in this forum a while back.  I'd really like to compare the IQ 180 against the Aptus-ii 12 to see if there is any difference.



I have the luxury of having both backs (IQ180 & Aptus12), but sadly at the moment, not the time to do the tests you want. Come to Dubai and knock your socks off!
However, I have noticed some subtle differences, subjectively speaking. Note that I process all my files in C1. In general, the IQ files look a bit more contrasty in the mid tones. The Aptus has very soft quarter tones and highlights (gentler transitions) and quite open three quarter tones and deep shadows. This is using the "product" profile, which is more contrasty than their "portrait" profiles. The IQ files also seem a little more saturated at default settings.
As a matter of personal taste, I prefer the IQ files. However, my personal tastes are very far removed from the mainstream - a quick look at the construction/industrial/aviation sections of my website will show what I mean. www.bryansiebel.com    
It should be said that the files from both backs are superb, recording detail simply impossible to get on film or any other digi back I've ever worked with. For me, what is important is that there is massive dynamic range, with data that is phenomenally pliable. My current 'look' relies on massive amounts of local colour and tonal adjustments and I cannot do this to a DSLR file without obvious image breakup and posterization.
Dougs and Guys comments earlier are spot-on. It's pointless hairsplitting on tonal range, colour saturation etc. In the real world, what you need is a back that records massive amounts of tonal and colour information and software (and knowledge of it) that allows you to create the look you want. Both these deliver in spades. Most times, I am having to drag my blacks in because there is so much dynamic range that the files can look flat. Even when shooting in "California light". Amazing.
Velvia was the mainstay of my work back in the bad old days of film (a four-letter word starting with "F"). I don't miss it at all.
I'm just very glad to be in a marriage where the husband owns an IQ180 and the wife an Aptus 12. Wedded bliss!!!
Let me put it this way, the images I am making today would be impossible without the backs we have access to these days. Pick whichever back you like and can afford, then put some serious effort into learning the how's and why's of the software. In the end, it's all about the pictures. "My camera is better than yours" conversations are a waste of image making time.
Cheers,
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issa

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2011, 06:11:17 am »

Had a call from my dealer this morning, IQ160 arrived today.

Arranged handover on Wednesday, My dealer DDI ( Chris Ireland - in UK) provides hands on on-site training and delivery.


Excited - will keep you posted.
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Issa

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Guy Mancuso

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2011, 07:21:02 am »

Awesome. It should have firmware 1.22 on it and I have been shooting sensor plus all week about 3k in images so far and everything is just about instant, focus mask, highlight and preview itself. I can get off about 5 frames if i really wanted too with a model walking down a runway. Comfortable 3 and it is working very fast. I really have less and less need for a 35mm but still have one as backup and for some PR stuff. Shooting mostly ISO 1600 and 800 on tungsten and noise looks very good. Try Noise 35/55 at ISO 1600.

Congrats and have fun
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narikin

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Re: Phase one IQ160
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2011, 03:41:56 pm »

I'm a blissfully happy P65+ owner. It's ridiculously good. And I understand it is the same as the IQ160 in terms of image quality so would definitely recommend it. Have also used a P45+ which seems a country mile off in quality compared to the P65+. I hear the IQ180 is another leap forward again and I look forward to getting my hands on one.

+1 the P65+ is an awesome back/sensor.  If you have that and are happy, don't bother switching to IQ series. save your pennies.
Anyone looking for a secon d hand back can't go wrong with it in terms of Image Quality.

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