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Author Topic: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?  (Read 10859 times)

jnmoore

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where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« on: June 27, 2011, 08:23:59 pm »

Hi,

Does anyone know of upcoming Epson sales or recommend a dealer with a good deal? Also, Michael recommends a RIP and B&H sell a version with this (ColorBurst) for a little bit more. Is it worth it? I've had frustrating times with my past printer drivers (Mac) getting confused about trays and paper sizes etc. so I am tempted to get a RIP to improve the process.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

John
johnagon.com
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mstevensphoto

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2011, 08:46:16 pm »

check IT Supplies.
switching to canon ended ALL of my printing frustration.
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jnmoore

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2011, 09:00:49 pm »

Thanks,

Vistek in Canada (I live in Vancouver) has lower prices. It can be purchased with the EFI eXpress RIP so any feedback on the value of this much appreciated. Apparently B&H won't ship these printers to Canada.

John

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neile

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2011, 09:19:33 pm »

There was a thread recently about how all three manufacturers (HP, Canon, Epson) prohibit US authorized resellers from selling to Canada. So you're stuck with Canadian sources for the printer at least.

Neil
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mfryd

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 10:12:24 am »

I have the 3880 with the bundled ColorBurst RIP.  The bundled RIP is not a full featured RIP.

I seldom use the RIP as the Epson driver is much easier to use.  The only time I use the RIP is when I need to print longer than 34 inches.

Most photographers don't need a RIP.
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Sven W

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2011, 05:22:24 pm »


Most photographers don't need a RIP.

An old statement which have been discussed many times in this forum.
And comes mostly from users who think all RIP's are made for prepress work (i.e. CMYK-proofs) or
the signage industry. But there are solutions for photographers and RGB workflow.
Take a look at ImagePrint and its community of satisfied users.
Their new blog has a lot of good information and topics similar to LuLa.

/Sven
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mfryd

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2011, 05:34:23 pm »

An old statement which have been discussed many times in this forum.
And comes mostly from users who think all RIP's are made for prepress work (i.e. CMYK-proofs) or
the signage industry. But there are solutions for photographers and RGB workflow.
Take a look at ImagePrint and its community of satisfied users.
Their new blog has a lot of good information and topics similar to LuLa.

/Sven

There are lots of good uses for a RIP.  Avoiding confusion about input paper trays is probably not the best reason.  I personally find Epson's standard 3880 printer driver easier to use then the bundled ColorBurst RIP for the 3880.


I agree that there are many situations where RIPs are a benefit.  I still think that a RIP is not necessary for the typical photographer who makes color prints on pre-cut sheets using an Epson 3880.  Obviously, not everybody falls into this category.

The bundled ColorBurst RIP is a particularly useless choice for a photographer because it does not support third party paper profiles.  Many photographers like using non-Epson paper, and it's very helpful to use the matching profile.
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Sven W

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2011, 03:41:51 am »


The bundled ColorBurst RIP is a particularly useless choice for a photographer because it does not support third party paper profiles.  Many photographers like using non-Epson paper, and it's very helpful to use the matching profile.

That's why I pointed on ImagePrint. A profile library for more than 400 different papers. And every papers has a bouquet
of profiles tuned for different approaches; daylight, tungsten, mixed light, fluorescent and unique b&w profiles.

Can you beat that?  :D

/Sven
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mfryd

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2011, 08:37:47 am »

That's why I pointed on ImagePrint. A profile library for more than 400 different papers. And every papers has a bouquet
of profiles tuned for different approaches; daylight, tungsten, mixed light, fluorescent and unique b&w profiles.

Can you beat that?  :D

/Sven

Are you suggesting that the primary benefit of ImagePrint is the bundled profiles?

Are you saying that this is something that most photographers need?

Personally, I don't need profiles for papers that I don't use, and I can't afford to stock a lot of different types of paper.  I mostly use papers from Red River.  They provide profiles that work beautifully with the standard Epson Driver.   How would you see ImagePrint helping my workflow on my 3880?

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Sven W

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2011, 11:56:04 am »

Are you suggesting that the primary benefit of ImagePrint is the bundled profiles?


Of course not. The profile library is down the list of benefits. Have you read about all the others?
Remember the OP's question.

/Sven
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mfryd

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2011, 01:12:49 pm »

Of course not. The profile library is down the list of benefits. Have you read about all the others?
Remember the OP's question.

/Sven

The OP's original question was whether he should get the bundled ColorBurst RIP to avoid confusion about trays and paper sizes etc.   I don't think the bundled RIP is really a help for this issue, and in fact, i think the bundled RIP makes this issue worse.

I followed your link, and I did not find thier reasons compelling.  On one hand, they say that standard drivers are bad because they are tuned for the general public.  Instead of passing along marginal files, they "improve" the image so almost anything looks good on the printer.  They then say that the advantage of their RIP is that it uses "Dynamic Contrast Matching" to automatically correct your images  and make them really "jump".

The Epson 3880 printer is not aimed at the home consumer.  Although the driver does offer the option of correcting your images, it also allows you to turn off these corrections.  This allows you to adjust and tune all of your colors in your image management program (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc.).   In my workflow, I let Photoshop handle the color management, and send 16 bit data to the driver.

The four listed benefits of the RIP are
  • 16 bit printing (which is already available to me printing from Photoshop to the stock Epson driver)
  • Enhanced Printable Gamut - I find this claim doubtful as they don't give specifics as to how much the gamut is enlarged (something that should be easy to measure).  In any case, the gamut I get from Epson's driver is large enough for my images.  Additional gamut wouldn't help me.
  • Large library of included profiles - I get my profiles form the paper vendor.  Profiles for papers I don't use are unnecessary.  For extremely critical work, I create me own profiles.  Canned profiles for someone else's printer aren't really a benefit.
  • Lower cost - profiles are included so you don't need to pay $100 each for custom profiles.  Paper vendors typically provide free canned profiles for use with Epson's standard driver.  Their profiles don't save you money over the standard driver.   If you really care about color, you should already have color calibration equipment.  Generic profiles made on someone else's printer are not as accurate as a custom profile made on your printer.  Their profiles don't save you money, canned profiles are free either way, and they provide no savings for custom profiles.

Remember, I am not saying RIPs are bad.  I think they are helpful and a benefit in many circumstances.   I'm just saying that for the typical photographer printing from a 3880, they probably aren't needed.  I could be wrong.  Can you list a few specific issues that confront a typical photographer where a RIP would be the best solution?
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Sven W

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2011, 04:05:55 pm »

I rather say that a user which prints a couple of prints a week, as you say, don't need a RIP.
No matter what printer you have.

Photographer or not, it's not only image quality or color fidelity, that play role. Flexibility, lower ink consumption, advanced layout
features, templates, step-and-repeat, job queue, rebuild jobs, annotations, design-your-own-cropmarks, 1000 inches print length, split-toned true b&w, and a lot more.

/Sven
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mfryd

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2011, 06:00:26 pm »

I rather say that a user which prints a couple of prints a week, as you say, don't need a RIP.
No matter what printer you have.

Photographer or not, it's not only image quality or color fidelity, that play role. Flexibility, lower ink consumption, advanced layout
features, templates, step-and-repeat, job queue, rebuild jobs, annotations, design-your-own-cropmarks, 1000 inches print length, split-toned true b&w, and a lot more.

/Sven

In my mind, the typical photographer with a 3880 is primarily printing one image per cut sheet.  He has no need for crop marks, advanced layout, annotations, etc.  When he does have these needs, they are handled by Photoshop or Lightroom.

I guess we have different ideas of what the typical photographer/3880 owner needs.
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Schewe

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2011, 10:39:35 pm »

Also, Michael recommends a RIP and B&H sell a version with this (ColorBurst) for a little bit more.

Exactly where does Michael advocate a RIP (and what is the date of that advocation)?
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Sven W

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2011, 02:59:31 am »

In my mind, the typical photographer with a 3880 is primarily printing one image per cut sheet.  He has no need for crop marks, advanced layout, annotations, etc.  When he does have these needs, they are handled by Photoshop or Lightroom.

I guess we have different ideas of what the typical photographer/3880 owner needs.

How do you know that?
And how did you assume the definition ..."the typical photographer/3880 owner" ? A hobbyist?
I know plenty of 3880/ImagePrint users, who happens to be "typical professional photographers".

/Sven
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mfryd

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2011, 07:24:17 am »

How do you know that?
And how did you assume the definition ..."the typical photographer/3880 owner" ? A hobbyist?
I know plenty of 3880/ImagePrint users, who happens to be "typical professional photographers".

/Sven

I am sure there are lots of photographers who are 3880 and ImagePrint users.   But that's not the question.

The question was "does the typical photographer with a 3880 need a RIP?"

It's clear that we have different opinions on what constitutes the typical photographer, and what tools are best.

A good RIP offers options and features over the standard driver.  The downside is that RIP costs money, and is an extra level of complexity to master.  If you don't need the extra features, there is no need to spend the money.

For me, I typically print on cut sheets.  If a customer orders 100 5x7 prints, I load a stack of paper into the 3880.  Sure, I could print on larger paper and manually cut the images out, but I have better things to do with my time, and 5x7 paper is a stock item with my supplier.

My paper vendor provides profiles for the standard driver, so I don't need a large library of profiles from the RIP vendor.  If I need custom profiles, It's no easier to make them with a RIP.

The color gamut from the Epson driver is excellent, and large enough to handle the photos I take.  A larger gamut that includes colors not in my photos, wouldn't help me.

The standard printer driver gives me a 16 bit path, so the RIP offers no advantage.

Epson's standard printer driver for the 3880 is pretty good.  Much better than drivers from a few years ago.  My clients and I are very happy with the quality from this driver, and I don't see a RIP increasing customer satisfaction with my prints.

Photoshop already gives me crop marks, and image placement options.  Lightroom allows me to print multiple images per page.

I use Epson's standard inks.  I don't have my printer loaded with 8 shades of black.  I don't need special software to support non-standard inks.

As to fine tuning the look of my image, I much prefer to do that in Photoshop.  Sometimes I need to make images larger than my 3880 can handle or I may want to reprint an image in the future, long after the 3880 is no longer available.  If the colors are correct in the image file, any properly calibrated process will make a matching print.  If I am fine tuning the image with the RIP, then these changes are lost  when I print without the RIP.

If I do want to adjust in the driver, Epson's printer provides excellent B&W options.

For me, the Epson driver meets my needs.  There is no advantage to me to spend extra money, time and effort on a RIP, when I have no problems for it to solve.

As you point out, these are just my opinions.  I have no data to back it up.  My thought is that most photographers fall into the same category that I am in, and don't need a RIP.  I am sure there are lots of people who need RIPs, I just think they are in the minority.

Obviously, you are very happy with you RIP, and I see nothing wrong with that.  You have given us all your reasons why you think RIPs are a good idea for most photographers.  Perhaps you will convince lots of people and they will get a RIP.  In a few weeks we might start seeing a rash of posts from photographers who have switched to RIPs and want to share their positive experience.   My suspicion is that this will not be the case. 

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Sven W

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2011, 08:12:26 am »

I'm getting tired.....
"Suspicions and opinions" are what Schewe could have stated: – We don't guess, we need facts.
I would like to hear from someone who have used both systems on the 3880/00.

/Sven
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mfryd

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2011, 08:38:57 am »

I'm getting tired.....
"Suspicions and opinions" are what Schewe could have stated: – We don't guess, we need facts.
I would like to hear from someone who have used both systems on the 3880/00.

/Sven

Fair enough.

I have the Epson 3880 with the bundled Colorburst RIP.

The RIP is better for complex PostScript jobs.

The standard Epson driver is easier to use, and gives better color and results on photos.

The bundled RIP does not support profiles for third party papers.

I haven't fired up the bundled RIP in months.

In my case, the extra cost of the RIP was not justified.
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Sven W

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2011, 09:02:27 am »

And then you mean the ColorBurst RIP and not ImagePrint. Right?

/Sven
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yannb

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Re: where & when to buy Epson 3880, RIP?
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2011, 10:14:21 am »

Hi,

Does anyone know of upcoming Epson sales or recommend a dealer with a good deal? Also, Michael recommends a RIP and B&H sell a version with this (ColorBurst) for a little bit more. Is it worth it? I've had frustrating times with my past printer drivers (Mac) getting confused about trays and paper sizes etc. so I am tempted to get a RIP to improve the process.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

John
johnagon.com

Hello,

Yesterday I gave a demo of an Epson Stylus Pro 4900 to a photographer. Mostly we sell these printers with the optional Spectrproofer to prepress houses and printers together with the EFI Colorproof XF, merely for proofing purposes. Then a rip comes in handy because it comes with features like automatic proof verification, iterating profiles, multiple input queues and so on.
I started the demo with just Photoshop and the Epson driver, thinking that a rip would be overkill for him. Colors were good, no problem here. It started when he asked about printing two or three images side by side, and putting crop marks around them, and cutting the roll paper without everytime having to create a custom paper size. I briefly showed him EFI Cololproof XF, but he wouldn't need multiple queues at once. Then I switched to EFI eXpress 4.1 Epson Edition. He was sold on the fact that he could following things with it:
- not spend a fortune on a rip (around 310 euro + tax, or 450 USD)
- drop multiple images in a folder (even from the network), and let the rip print them next to each other with the filename under them, rotated for minimum paper use, all sized to the same format, use the embedded profile, add crop marks and cut the paper after the last image was printed.
- use the same RGB output profiles from media vendors using the RGB Profile Connector. Yes, Epson has RGB Contone, CMYK Contone and CMYK Halftone drivers available for rip vendors.
- use CMYK output profiles for better control of the black channel, lower ink use
- print press proofs for jobs that will be printed in offset
- keeping the printed jobs stored for a few days in the rip, so that if the enduser requested a few more copies, the photographer would just have to select the job, enter the number of copies and hit 'print', and not loading the file back in Photoshop and make a mistake in printer settings/profile selection and what have you
- creating reliable profiles independently of the operating system version: no null transform tricks in Photoshop's print dialog box, no need to use the Adobe Color Print Utility. What will it be with Mac OS X Lion?
- easy to work with: he'll be installing himself

No need to tell I'm all for rips ;-)

Regards,
Yann
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