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Author Topic: Dutch Nature  (Read 5607 times)

Janine4d

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Dutch Nature
« on: June 10, 2011, 06:26:11 am »

This was taken yesterday evening close to where I live:


Dutch Nature by Janine4d, on Flickr

Not much post processing this time, just some warming and curves to brighten it up a bit.
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popnfresh

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2011, 11:32:47 am »

Except for a bit of blue in the sky this image is almost monochrome. I played with it a bit in Photoshop and in my opinion it works better as a B&W image. I'm not going to post my B&W conversion here, but you might want to explore that avenue yourself.

Aesthetically, I think the composition works pretty well. I like the shallow DOF.
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Janine4d

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 08:00:47 am »

Except for a bit of blue in the sky this image is almost monochrome. I played with it a bit in Photoshop and in my opinion it works better as a B&W image. I'm not going to post my B&W conversion here, but you might want to explore that avenue yourself.

Aesthetically, I think the composition works pretty well. I like the shallow DOF.

Thanks, I've played around with B&W conversion but in my opinion that takes away about 50% of the appeal of the photo and doesn't add much. I wouldn't want to lose the subtle pastel colours and yellow accents in the foreground.

I don't really care all that much for black and white landscapes personally, I reserve that for other genres, I prefer my landscapes in colour. Unless the weather is very dramatic and the B&W conversion adds to that. But I find that too many landscapes are converted to black and white just for the sake of it so I try to be a little different. :)
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Dave (Isle of Skye)

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 08:28:49 am »

Hi Janine,

I like the bright colours and the composition of the image, but for me there is not enough in focus or nearly in focus to satisfy. Now I assume you were going for this type of look and it is always good to experiment, but there is a difference between artistic use of focusing and blurry, to me this image leans a bit too much towards blurry, to the point I find it quite uncomfortable to look at.

But keep experimenting and try the same type of shot with a variety of DoF's selected.

Photobloke
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RSL

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 10:30:12 am »

Janine, It's good work just as it is. The windmill in the background finishes the composition.

Selective focus in a situation like this presents you with difficult choices. When the features you might select are scattered at various distances, the focus plane you choose makes the difference between success and failure. I think your choice in this shot is the right one. It throws the stalk on the left side of the picture into focus, and for some weird reason the diagonal made by the stalk and the windmill is important to the composition.

Here's an example of a much easier selective focus problem since the stalks in focus are all pretty much in the same plane. It's nowhere near as good as yours because it doesn't have that great ghost of a windmill.
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John R Smith

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 03:04:49 pm »

Janine

OOF objects in the foreground seem to work in colour, whereas they almost never do in B/W. So your first instincts were correct.

John
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Dave (Isle of Skye)

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 03:58:40 pm »

Here's an example of a much easier selective focus problem since the stalks in focus are all pretty much in the same plane. It's nowhere near as good as yours because it doesn't have that great ghost of a windmill.

Now you see I would disagree, your image is IMO, is much better and relaxing to me the viewer, because the "in focus" area is set along the central horizontal plain of the image and as such more comfortable to look at and investigate visually. The previous image only has focus near the bottom of the frame, yet my eyes keeps wandering back to the top of the frame where the composition seems to be pointing to and wanting me to go. Yet I find that area of the image uncomfortably out of focus and a bit like trying to focus on the TV screen with one eye covered after arriving back from the pub a bit the worse for wear. I do wear glasses so perhaps it is a symptom of my age and my eyes rather than the DoF used.

Photobloke
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Rob C

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 05:10:45 pm »

You can sometimes have it both ways.

;-)

Rob C

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 06:17:40 pm »

Bloke, Yes, the wandering of the eye up to the windmill is what struck me. The in-focus stalk on the left seems to be what invites that. The shoot off to the right of the stalk points at the windmill and my eye just naturally transverses the diagonal. Yes, my shot is easier on the eye but that's because it's a lot easier to do than Janine's since the plane of focus can encompass the main subject. Same with Rob's girl. Speaking of selective focus and girls, let's see what Rob thinks of this quite beautiful and very pensive young lady.
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Rob C

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2011, 05:10:37 pm »

Russ, it's a strange thing that I notice at times with magnification: pictures can look stronger when seen small. And that's what I find with this one of yours. The compression of tones into a more compacted form (by virtue of smallness) lifts the apparent contrast of the whole, and in a way, it is as if the image were in black and white - stronger.

That's not to say there's anything amiss with the larger format, it just gives a different mood - completely different, for me. Perhaps the large one simply shows too much and takes away the mood of mystery I see in the small version.

Perhaps stamper's gardeners will come calling again...

Rob C

PS Not usually given to offering crop modes, it just struck me that the shot would no longer be 'street' but a hell of a lot more interesting to me if the signs of the normality outside were removed; they intrude into the girl's reverie. All you need is around the girl.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 05:14:45 pm by Rob C »
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RSL

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2011, 05:52:32 pm »

But, see, Rob, you're focusing as usual on the loveliness of the girl instead of on the whole situation. The signs of normality outside the window, and especially the empty chair in front of her emphasize her pensiveness and seeming isolation. Actually her hubby showed up about two minutes after I made this shot and sat down in the empty chair. Yes, I agree about the effect of size differences. As they say: "size matters."

Here she is in B&W. I think I like the color version better in this case. The color of the iced tea and the furniture seems to work especially well with her coloring.
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 08:49:07 pm »

You know that I hate to agree with you, Russ, but I have to admit that the colors in this one add a great deal to the image.

Rob, on the other hand, would probably crop out the chairs, the table, the iced tea, the hat, and the lady's clothes.   ;)

Eric
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RSL

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2011, 09:07:58 pm »

Especially the latter.
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Rob C

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2011, 03:37:27 am »

Now that's type-casting based on a specific period in my life. It also shows that people remember what they see and not what they might have read. In my website I do remark that I regret the loss of pretty well all my fashion pics, sold to past clients or destroyed by myself in the final clean-out before leaving for the Mediterranean and pastures new.

The idea that one's negatives might, in some future years, have a personal value, never crossed my mind back in late '80 when the move was being planned (planned - now that's a certain amount of artistic licence!). There may have been examples of such in the States, but the tiny Scottish world was devoid of such values apart from a few historically important images of life as she was lived, but that was all about ships, houses and slum kids. Consequently, the public image of yours truly is represented by more or less a single genre, which I think is a shame, but too late for tears, as the honey trap said when it closed.

No, my liking for Russ's image is increased in b/w now that I can see it. And the reason isn't at all to do with thoughts of the lady sans clobber; it is all to do with the half-hidded face under the brim of the hat; the air of mystery and the shadows of Sarah Moon that I detect, which just goes to show that even a shooter with little interest in fashion, per se, can venture into its atmosphere, as innocent as the day that he was born. But of course, all that Sarah, myself or Russ does is react to the ambience. But first we have to see it.

Really, the difference that divides the colour vote from the b/w is one of genre perception: I see fashion where others see indoor street; where I don't want to see detail, the others do.

I would love to hear Fred's take on this, being both artist by training and fashion photographer by current professional experience.

Rob C

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2011, 11:56:05 am »

I'm afraid we've hijacked Janine's thread. My apologies, Janine. It was my fault.

But... Rob, I can't imagine throwing away a negative or an original digital file after I've gone through the initial culling process. Way, way back, before Korea in 1953, I threw away a bunch, mostly pictures of girls I'd made in high school, but, like you, I've even come to regret that. As you say, it's the personal value that matters. I'm never going to be a well-known photographer and I'm never going to make enough money on prints to cover my costs, but my photographs matter -- to me!

I like the B&W version of the girl too, but I've been looking at a lot of Impressionist paintings lately and the color relationships in that shot grab me.

Here's another one from yesterday that I shot through the same window at almost the same seat in the restaurant. This one doesn't have the same color harmonies, so the B&W version is better. I embarrassedly have to admit I cropped it. I simply couldn't get into quite the right position. I doubt you can see this one as a fashion statement.
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Russ Lewis  www.russ-lewis.com.

Rob C

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2011, 03:57:19 pm »

I'm afraid we've hijacked Janine's thread. My apologies, Janine. It was my fault.

But... Rob, I can't imagine throwing away a negative or an original digital file after I've gone through the initial culling process. Way, way back, before Korea in 1953, I threw away a bunch, mostly pictures of girls I'd made in high school, but, like you, I've even come to regret that. As you say, it's the personal value that matters. I'm never going to be a well-known photographer and I'm never going to make enough money on prints to cover my costs, but my photographs matter -- to me!

I like the B&W version of the girl too, but I've been looking at a lot of Impressionist paintings lately and the color relationships in that shot grab me.

Here's another one from yesterday that I shot through the same window at almost the same seat in the restaurant. This one doesn't have the same color harmonies, so the B&W version is better. I embarrassedly have to admit I cropped it. I simply couldn't get into quite the right position. I doubt you can see this one as a fashion statement.


I most certainly can, and I do!

Perhaps even more than the first one it works both small and enlarged, the added touch of femininity in the touching-up gesture along with the fabric of the blouse is ravishing! Even the kid helps with the gender atmosphere. Wish I'd shot it. Cropped? Who cares - in extremis, and it worked.

Rob C

PS  You are Nkon too: how did you meter?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 04:03:14 pm by Rob C »
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Janine4d

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2011, 08:28:45 pm »

I'm afraid we've hijacked Janine's thread. My apologies, Janine. It was my fault.

No problem!

Thanks for all the comments ...and those relating to my photo too ;)
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Rob C

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2011, 04:58:12 am »

No problem!

Thanks for all the comments ...and those relating to my photo too ;)



That's one of the beauties of this site, Janine: one thing can often lead to a fascinating other; there isn't usually any disrespect intended either, which makes it even better.

All a natural progression.

Ciao -

Rob C

RSL

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2011, 10:54:36 am »

I most certainly can, and I do!

Perhaps even more than the first one it works both small and enlarged, the added touch of femininity in the touching-up gesture along with the fabric of the blouse is ravishing! Even the kid helps with the gender atmosphere. Wish I'd shot it. Cropped? Who cares - in extremis, and it worked.

Rob C

PS  You are Nkon too: how did you meter?

Rob, Thanks. I see it as a street shot, not a fashion shot, but then... I've never done fashion.

With my D2X I used to switch back and forth between spot and matrix metering. When I'd go after a great egret (pure white) on the Palatlakaha river I'd switch to spot and meter on the bird, etc. But I've found the D3 to be almost spookily capable in matrix mode, so I stick to matrix almost exclusively. I do keep active D-lighting on and set to normal, which compresses the dynamic range a tad. Once in a while, if I see an extreme situation, I'll use exposure comp to correct -- usually to force a bit of underexposure. Most of the time matrix metering and Nikon's fantastic algorithms give me almost perfect exposure-to-the-right. On this one I used a Viveza control point to bring up the left side of the woman's face just a touch.
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Rob C

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Re: Dutch Nature
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2011, 03:17:58 pm »

Hi Russ

Mine is just a D700, but even its early sister the D200 was very accurate in Matrix. I find that I never move the thing away from Matix at all; I've tried to convince stamper to do the same, but he still enjoys playing with spot despite the fact that the 3 degree angle that cameras struggle to give are three times as wide as a true spot meter should read...

Correcting exposure beyond the Matrix' opinion is easy for me as long as I'm not on Auto ISO: manual lenses! Love them. Even the 2.8/180mm, which is the only af lens I have, focusses very easily manually, and at exactly the spot I choose. Haven't used it in af at all, other than to test it worked.

You may not have shot fashion, but then when you consider that Frank Horvat was a very influential fashion shooter as well as a good pj, the two skills shouldn't really appear odd companions - they require much the same technique of speed and a real interest in, and understanding of people and the things they do, their mannerisms etc.

http://www.horvatland.com

Rob C
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