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Author Topic: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper  (Read 4104 times)

BrianWoolf

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Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« on: June 09, 2011, 03:03:54 pm »

Hello,
I have been using matte papers on my Epson 7600, since I purchased it used, and in general I love matte paper.

I would like to try a luster surface that could be considered a good quality paper. It would be nice if the paper had some 'archival' qualities, but I don't think that that surface is in the 'archival' ballpark.

A few years ago, I printed a box of Epson Prem. Luster and was satisfied with the surface and the quality. So I am leaning towards that paper, but is there something better out there these days. Mostly I do landscape and urban images.

Thanks,
Brian Woolf
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2011, 03:10:09 pm »

Have you read the HUGE number of reviews and threads on this website dealing with different kinds of papers?
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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fike

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2011, 02:02:18 pm »

There is a fairly large contingent (me included) who like the Ilford Gold fiber Silk.  For a lower cost alternative, the old standby of Epson Premium Luster is always decent.  There are more exotic options that are quite expensive:

Ilford (reasonably priced, very high quality)
Epson Premium Luster (cheap, high quality)
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Sven W

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2011, 03:12:34 pm »

The first generation of the Ultrachrome inks, was / are troublesome on glossy/semigloss surfaces.
These inks don't "penetrate" the microporous layer efficient enough and the result is heavy bronzing and gloss differential.
I found that only one paper did the job: Ilford Smooth Pearl.
(But put the prints under glass, and the bronze and GD almost disappear)
 
/Sven
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 05:04:20 pm by Sven W »
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BrianWoolf

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2011, 09:00:46 pm »

Mark D Segal,
   Thanks for your reply, of course it was not exactly what I was looking for, but I will be happy to answer your question.
   Yes, I probably have read every post, article and review on printing papers in the past 5 years, concentrating more on the matte papers. Alas, I do not have a photographic memory and it seems that all the paper reviews are cobbled together in one part of my brain, quite muddled together. I do not want to waste anyone's time and was not looking for a tech paper on dozens of papers.
   What I was hoping for was a single line, heads up. Like "Check out Ilford's Gold Fibre Silk, a satin type finish and a good paper." With that info, I would be happy to do searches for the paper here and on the web, to find full reviews.
   Before I posted the question, I visited both Adorama and B&H' web sites to look thru the roll paper selections. I was hoping to narrow down a selection to 6 or so papers, by a process of elimination but it was confusing, with Moab having 60 selections, Canson 70, Epson 110, Hahnemuhle 80 and about 18 other brands. There were a lot of Commercial Proofing Semi-Matte papers from Epson, page upon page. It seemed like a larger project than I thought, with lots of uncertainty, this is a luster paper, but what exactly is this one. So I thought why not ask for advice. So i posted my question.

   When I took a look for replies on thursday, late, I noticed a new article on Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag by Mark Dubovoy and after reading it, I agreed with it completely because I actually had a sample of the paper, so I knew what the author was talking about. What is confusing about all of this is Mark Dubovoy says that the manufacturer is calling it a glossy paper, on Adorama web site it is listed as a matte paper, yet it has some gloss or shine but looks more satiny with it's rather odd texture, when holding a printed sample in your hand. So without a printed sample, it is quite difficult to figure who is correct/accurate. Yes, I know a store is a lost cause, so toss their info out and put most of your stock in Mark Dubovoy's article. But to really know you must buy the paper and try it out. All I need is the money and the time.

Fike,
   Thanks for the info, the Ilford Gold Fibre Silk is a paper that fits my request, I tried it a while ago and didn't quite like it, not really sure why. I found the sample prints and they do look  fairly good, it still feels plasticky and all those light scratches on the white border. I actually want people to hold my prints

Sven W
   Had forgot about the bronzing problem and it could possibly effect me. Never considered the Ilford Smooth Pearl so thanks.

The image is from Coney Island and is a tritone sepia, I favor sepia images
Brian Woolf
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2011, 09:10:49 pm »

Well, you see Brian, that was part of the reason I asked. My one-liner was going to be "try Ilford Gold Fibre Silk", but you've been there, done that and didn't like it. OK, you're beyond stage 1 - you've read all the stuff and it clearly doesn't do the trick for you. So stage 2, without wasting money buying envelopes or boxes of paper you won't like is to visit the shops that sell them and ask to see samples. Most of the manufacturers provide sample books of their papers, so you can get a feel for what you are buying before you do. More than this, it is hard to advise, because these choices are so personal and the look and feel of a paper can't really be conveyed adequately beyond the gamut plots. I really like the photographic qualities of the baryta papers, so I'm prepared to tolerate being real careful about handling them. Others feel less comfortable about that trade-off. A difficult area in which to give advice.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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BrianWoolf

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2011, 11:32:02 am »

Mark,
The fact that you and another photographer recommends Ilford GFS, forces me to reconsider that paper, I have one of the samples I made up and will compare over the next few days.
At present, I am leaning to the Canson Platine Fibre Rag, as I would classify it as a lustre type paper and like that it is a 'softer' type paper. One of the problems I have with the Ilford GFS paper, is that while the prints look rich, they seem to be harsher than I would like and maybe the solution would be to lower the contrast, for printing on that paper.

Brian
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Mark D Segal

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2011, 12:05:00 pm »

Brian, I think IGFS is particularly nice for sepia images because it is a comparatively warm-tone paper. Your concern about contrast is something, as you mention, you would handle in Photoshop, with finishing touches at the soft-proofing stage, where you would have "Simulate Paper White" and Black Point Compensation both enabled, so that you can properly foresee the outcomes, provided your display and paper/printer profiling is adequate to the task. Beyond that, it's often times necessary just to work with a paper a bit, get to know it, so you'd more assuredly get the kind of contrast you want. I would classify this paper in the Luster family - as you've undoubtedly observed, it certainly isn't matte, its not high-gloss, and it has a very discrete surface texture. Kind of a nice compromise for people who want higher DMax than achieveable with matte, but without the reflectance of high gloss.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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KeithR

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2011, 12:54:23 pm »

   When I took a look for replies on thursday, late, I noticed a new article on Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag by Mark Dubovoy and after reading it, I agreed with it completely because I actually had a sample of the paper, so I knew what the author was talking about. What is confusing about all of this is Mark Dubovoy says that the manufacturer is calling it a glossy paper, on Adorama web site it is listed as a matte paper, yet it has some gloss or shine but looks more satiny with it's rather odd texture, when holding a printed sample in your hand. So without a printed sample, it is quite difficult to figure who is correct/accurate. Yes, I know a store is a lost cause, so toss their info out and put most of your stock in Mark Dubovoy's article. But to really know you must buy the paper and try it out. All I need is the money and the time.
Brian Woolf

I posted about this back in February:
"And therein lies the rub. We have forever been told that descriptions that state things like "100% cotton" and "Fibre Rag" are terms synonymous with Matte Black ink. And terms like "Photo" and "Glossy" use Photo Black. Why can't the people that market this stuff, LABEL it as to which ink is recommended for the type of paper that it is. A simple "For best results it is recommended that Photo Black(or Matte Black) ink be used for this paper". I had been looking at samples of the Canson line at a local dealer(the ONLY dealer locally that actually has a WIDE variety to look at and compare side by side) but the 100% cotton and Rag convinced me that I could not use it since I use PK. Unfortunately, the only person that I could ask at the time was someone(not his area of expertise) that didn't know if the Platine FR was PK or MK compatible.
Thank you Kirk for your answer! Next time I'm by that store(no one else in town carries it) I'll take another close look at the Canson line:"

I did get to go back to that store and looked at the samples and bought a package to try. As it says on the Canson website it is for use with Photo Black, which is what I use. It does say "Glossy" on the package, which indicates PK ink, but I find the surface to be softer, almost like a semi-matte, which is what I prefer.
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The Doc

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2011, 09:51:29 pm »

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scrinch

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2011, 05:53:50 am »

I have tried a number of  satin, semigloss, luster, semi matte papers on my 7890 and finally ended with Red River Arctic Polar Satin.  It is subjective which paper "looks best" of course, but I like this one so far,  and the price is about $75.00 for a 17"x100' roll.

welder

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 12:46:31 pm »

I will also cast a vote for Ilfore GFS. Color, black and white, sepia, it doesn't matter, it's my favorite paper at a reasonable price. I really like the range of tones it gives, the subtle surface texture, and the warmth of the paper. On some printers it can be prone to head strikes...but on my ipf8300 the vacuum strength of the printer is really good and I've had no problems with it yet (currently using a 44" roll).
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 04:08:23 pm »

I'm going to test Moab Exhibition Lasal ... saw some at a trade show and love the weight and look of the paper - sort of a high end Epson Luster look.

I use the Ilford GGFS some, it looks good, but do find it a little "boring" as a fine art paper ... I like a little more sheen and a little more texture. I've been using Epson Exhibition Fiber a lot lately. I know everyone thinks the OBA's are bad, but it sure looks good, and  it will look fine for several decades.
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Sven W

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 04:44:48 pm »

I've been using Epson Exhibition Fiber a lot lately. I know everyone thinks the OBA's are bad, but it sure looks good, and  it will look fine for several decades.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.
The OBA is washed out quicker than Enhanced Matte.
It drops nearly 9 deltaE values, towards a pronounced yellow cast.
In my daylight tests, it happened in 8 months.

/Sven
Ps Can be confirmed at Aardenburg
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2011, 05:11:53 pm »

I had a nice print on EEF that I hung in my old office where I had (and still have unless someone took it down) a nice gallery.  Paper showed a cast change quickly but it was under pretty bright halogen lamps in a hallway. 
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George Marinos

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Re: Recommendations on a quality luster/satin type paper
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2011, 05:29:42 pm »

How about Fine art baryta from Hahnemuehle? A part  its rough surface(you can love or hate) it is an excellent paper!
I use it very much for BW printing.
George
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