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Author Topic: Mighty Muck  (Read 12278 times)

patioart

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Mighty Muck
« on: June 06, 2011, 10:59:53 am »

Hello to all. I am new here. I have been searching for months for a way to order Mighty Muck. I plan to adhere my oil paintings done on oil primed unstretched linen to either masonite or archival gatorboard. Another artists recommended Mighty Muck. Can anyone help me with a phone number or address? I have searched the internet for as long as I can stand. Your website is wonderful! I am not much of a photographer, but I do take photo references for my paintings. Thank you for reading. Any info you can provide is greatly appreciate. Sincerely,
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Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2011, 12:00:47 pm »

If you google the term, within the first page you get answers.
I sense an odd smell .....

patioart

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2011, 12:08:16 pm »

Thanks very much for the response. I have been google-ing it for at least a month on and off and all I have found is "Miracle Muck" and snipets from the Luminous Landscape Forum and a couple others. None of which has had any info other than the name "Mighty Muck". And just what is it you think you smell???
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bill t.

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2011, 12:17:36 pm »

How 'bout MIRACLE Muck?  I went through exactly the same thing, there's a old post here which says Mighty when it meant to say Miracle.  Exact same stuff, guaranteed.

http://raphaelstoday.com/miraclemuck.aspx

PS.  The "Printers, Papers, and Inks" forum is a much better place for this kind of stuff.  And welcome!
« Last Edit: June 06, 2011, 12:20:03 pm by bill t. »
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patioart

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2011, 12:22:19 pm »

Thank you again. I have researched Miracle Muck and it is not archival. They actually state that in their website. I'll try a friendlier way to find the information I need.
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bill t.

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2011, 12:32:57 pm »

Sorry you got the cold shoulder initially, sometimes we get thinly-veiled commercial posts on these forums and yours was mistaken for that.  We're really a fairly civil bunch here, well maybe except for a few hot-button topics!

Strictly speaking, no glue or adhesive or any way at all of attaching a print to something else is archival.  I have many very old examples of prints attached to backings with PVA glue (like Miracle Muck) that are still in great condition, so I am not concerned about longevity.  When water based glue dries, the chemistry pretty much stops dead in its tracks.  If you want, you can pay a little more and use Lamin-All which is pH neutral, the difference is $20/gallon -> $50/gallon.

http://www.unitedmfrs.com/cart/detail.cfm?item=3071
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Christoph C. Feldhaim

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2011, 12:56:29 pm »

Thanks very much for the response. I have been google-ing it for at least a month on and off and all I have found is "Miracle Muck" and snipets from the Luminous Landscape Forum and a couple others. None of which has had any info other than the name "Mighty Muck". And just what is it you think you smell???

Lets say it so:
If you enter a forum and your first post leads towards a product you might raise suspicion.
We had and have cases of astroturfing here and I personally am greatly annoyed by any sort of spam.
If I did you no right I want to apologize but I couldn't help the feeling.
After all your future forum history or lack thereof will tell ...

patioart

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2011, 01:38:24 pm »

Thank you very much. I will look into Lumin-all. I was told about Mighty Muck by a well known local artist in NE who sells her work by informing clients of her totally archival methods for longevity. I am no longer taking classes from her and unless I decide to go back and pay her, I won't be able to get the info on Mighty Muck. I did have the address and phone on my laptop, but hard drive crashed and what a pita that was and still is. Lost lots of good info. I installed a new one, a new keyboard, reinstalled photoshop, etc. I am so done with computing :( . I do understand about the intrusions into your private forum and apologize for coming off that way. Thanks again for the info. Patti
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bill t.

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2011, 02:38:57 pm »

I would be suspicious of somebody claiming "totally archival" while gluing their prints down!  The most basic tenet of "archival" is reversibility, which is the ability to trivially remove the print from the artwork package in its original condition.  So if you glue, adhesive mount, dry mount or do anything that attaches the print to something, you have to take down the "Archival" sign!

It doesn't matter if the glue is claimed to be Neutral, it's the simple act of mounting that violates the archival rule.  Also, "archival" requires the other material in the art package and frame to be chemically inactive so as not to burn the prints, and that includes not using wood moulding that will come within a few inches of the art.

I prefer "long lasting" to "archival."  I have souvenir prints mounted to Masonite with the same chemistry of glue As Miracle Muck.  These are from the 70's and still look terrific, so I'm not worried about gluing my canvases.  I am confident they will be long-lasting, and the oldest ones I still have access to have been up for many years now without chemical or mechanical issues.

All those glues are basically the same PVA formulation.  The ones calling themselves "pH neutral" just have something like sodium bicarbonate added so they test pH neutral.  But when the glue dries underneath a coated canvas, the chemistry basically stops for lack of solvent transport, and I suspect there's not much chemistry going on to start with.

Also, it's "Lamin-All" not "Lumin-All" for the pH neutral version of the glue.
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patioart

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2011, 03:40:49 pm »

Thank you, Bill, for all that technical information. I really don't expect my paintings to end up in a museum, but I didn't want them to start peeling off the backing or burn the actual canvas within a short period of time. I work in both oil paint and pastel. The pastel, of course must be done on a paper. That would probably be of more concern to me than the canvas as far as burning. I'm not a "professional" and do my own work in my basement studio at home. I'm just trying to find out the best way to do this mounting without too many mistakes. It takes a big time investment to create a piece of art and would hate to sell it and have someone return it because it was falling apart. I apreciate all your responses and generous information. And no, I'm not selling a product and I won't even show you my paintings  :) .... unless you really want to see them. I'm so new I've just received my first "maybe offer" to enter a gallery... although I do enter shows and fundraisers and have sold paintings. Still in my learning phase. But then, I hear an artist is never really happy with their work...they always strive to be better. Thanks again. Pattie
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bill t.

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2011, 04:49:42 pm »

My wife is a pastelist as well.  Before she even starts a piece we mount 30 x 44 Arches sheets to Gatorfoam with Miracle Muck and sometimes Lamin-All and have absolutely no problems with separation, buckling, or whatever over many years.  That's a very nice package because it stays super-flat.  We have been framing the pieces pressed right up against plexiglass sheets, which is a technique a lot of the pastelists in this area have been using recently...I'm sure I don't have to tell you why!  Should also mention that you should NOT glue to ordinary foamcore as that will cause terrible warping that can never be fixed, Gatorfoam is the only lightweight substrate I know that stays flat with something glued to it.

You might like to try a test piece.  Glue down a piece of scrap, let it dry a few hours, they try to peel it up.  Can be very convincing!
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patioart

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2011, 05:52:05 pm »

Again, Thank you, Bill. I had heard never to put pastel or paper directly against glass due to possible mold from humidity. Also, I had heard not to use plexi as it pulls the pastel off the paper/board due to static. I had never heard of placing it directly against the plexi. I'll give that a try. Perhaps it depends on where you live when it comes to mold. I'm in New England and we have drastic temp and humidity changes. I don't like to spray the pastel as it changes color. Also, the spacers I buy are kind of expensive. So I really appreciate this information. Now I've got to order some glue and gatorboard and get going. Just recently spent a small fortune on more pastel colors! Patti
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Robcat

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2011, 08:15:04 pm »

You might like to try a test piece.  Glue down a piece of scrap, let it dry a few hours, they try to peel it up.  Can be very convincing!
+ that. I did some tests last year and Hahnemuhle rag will split in half (top to bottom) instead of peeling off. I don't think your print's going anywhere. Been using it on my canvases but not for anywhere near as long as Bill.
Rob P
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patioart

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2011, 08:44:34 pm »

Thank you, Rob! I appreciate the comment and will take all your advice. Got my boards, just need to get my glue and get started :) .
Patti
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bill t.

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Re: Mighty Muck
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2011, 09:18:11 pm »

As long as we're on the subject or MM, I should mention that it is heat reversible.

Heat up a drymount press to about 160-170F, press the glued-down pacakge a few minutes with a thin cover sheet.  As soon as you remove it there is about a 30 second time span where the print will peel of quite easily.  Before attempting this, you should practice with a reject package or one you made up for testing.

And in the unlikely event just a section or edge should ever peel up, you can re-attach it with a household iron or tacking iron.

Correct amount of glue for most purposes is about 0.003 ounces of glue per square inch of total glued area (not just the print size).  The 1/8" thick, 8" wide foam rollers I use will soak up about 2.5 ounces of glue.  So if I'm gluing 200 square inches of media, I would need 0.6 ounces for the media, plus 2.5 ounces for the roller, for a total of 3.1 ounces.  Of course, the extra 2.5 ounces is only if the roller is dry to start with, which is usually just the first print in a mounting session.

PS always have a scrap piece of cardboard handy so you can "roll off" some of the glue in the roller if you get too much glue on the substrate.  Pressing hard moves glue from the roller to the cardboard.  Pressing soft goes the other way, but only slightly. 

PS you can store a wet roller in a large refrigerator baggy a long time without the glue drying, at least 10 hours.  Just make a half-hearted attempt to prevent too much air getting into the bag, just a couple sloppy folds will do if you can't seal the bag.
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