Mamiya DF (DM40) or Hasselblad H4D-40?

[evgeny]

Hi.

I need to decide how to replace my Contax 645 system to photograph people in studio and outdoors:

1. Buy a Sinar 75 LV digital back for my Sinar M to allow mobile work. I currently use Sinar M with 54H back for still life. The Sinar M is great, but big and heavy as dinosaur. This is the cheapest option.
2. Buy Mamiya DF (DM40) with a 80mm lens.
3. Buy Hasselblad H4D-40 with a 80mm lens. I like true focus, 256 - 1/800 sec shutter speeds, and sync speed at all shutter speeds. This is the most expensive option.

Please advice.
Evgeny

[Radu Arama]

You can also consider this combo:

http://www.tekade.de/Mittelformat-Analog-Digital/Mittelformat-Kameras/Pentax-645D-body.html
+
http://www.tekade.de/Mittelformat-Analog-Digital/Pentax-645-Objektive/smc-FA-645-75-mm-2-8.html
= 10554 Euro (including 19% VAT).

Radu

[Nick-T]

Is the DM40 a Dalsa chip?

If so it's a very different beast from the H4D40 FYI.

Nick-T

[Josef Isayo]

I went with the H4D 40 over the Mamiya DF (P40+) after playing with the Phase branded camera. The DF just felt cheap and I didn't like shooting high ASA in 10MP form.
The H4D felts a lot better, with better AF (Speed and True Focus) has the 100 F/2.2 AF, and shoots quality high asa up to 1600. The files are noticeably nicer than my 5D 2.
I do wish Hasselblad had the Phase IQ series type LCD.

[design_freak]

It's easy. H4d40 is the best option.In my opinion, H4d40 is best in H4d range

[evgeny]

Nick, I think today Leaf digital backs use Dalsa chip, not Kodak. Please explain why they are 'very' different?
Radu, I don't consider Pentax.

[Nick-T]

Evgeny
I thought it was a Dalsa but wanted to be sure. The Kodak chipped H4D40 will preform much better at high ISO and longer exposures than a Dalsa chipped camera partly because the chip in the 40 and partly because Kodak chips always perform better at higher ISOs/longer exposures.

get someone to show you the DAC corrections and true focus, they are both pretty compelling reasons to look at the 'blad IMO.

Nick-T

[Doug Peterson]

I thought it was a Dalsa but wanted to be sure. The Kodak chipped H4D40 will preform much better at high ISO [...] than a Dalsa chipped camera partly because the chip in the 40 and partly because Kodak chips always perform better at higher ISOs [...]

The difference in high ISOs is almost entirely because the Kodak chip includes microlenses which increase the native ISO of the back a full stop (very cool) but make it unsuitable for use on a technical camera or with strong tilts/shifts (by the owner or someone they want to sell it to in the future) and also raises the base ISO (so you can't use it at ISO50 for e.g. cutting down ambient daylight when shooting outdoors with flash). The H4D-40 does significantly outperform the DM40 at ISO800 (and has an ISO1600 option to boot). So if you need higher ISOs then the DM40 is not right for you.

Then again you're using the Sinar 54H now so that implies to me you're not especially concerned about high ISOs and would use another tool (e.g. a dSLR) if you needed e.g. ISO1600.

It should also be noted your DM40 can sync up to 1/1600th when using one of the leaf shutter lenses (including 1/1600th wirelessly while no 'blad wireless solution that I'm aware of can fully use 1/800th) in addition to shooting up to 1/4000th with the focal plane shutter.

You should also download and try both Phocus (hassy) and Capture One (phase) as you'll only get the most out of either option by using the manufacturer software for the raw conversion and consequently you'll be spending many hours with one or the other once you buy the camera. Doesn't hurt to have a dealer for each step you through the software so you see the software from an expert's point of view first (which you'll become after some usage, but will not be when you first open the software).

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[evgeny]

Nick, Doug,
I use native ISO of the backs in studio, and up to ISO 200 in outdoors. It's good to know that H4D-40 back does use microlenses, so I need to keep my Sinar M/54H combo.

[BernardLanguillier]

Radu, I don't consider Pentax.

If I may ask this burning question, why?

Cheers,
Bernard

[donaldt]

it depends a lot of what you really are looking for
I had the Mamiya before, and have Hass now

Mamiya makes great pictures no question about it
however its camera, I just dont understand how it could be so cheaply done, they could have outsource to any major camera maker and get much better camera built
shutter lag, cheap feel, bad control, everything you would not want is on the camera
does it mean you cant get good photos, no
does it bother you, yes, greatly

the Hass system on the other hand
is very nicely built
you can tell it was really built for photographers
everything on the camera is better than Mamiya
except maybe the shutter speed but 1/800 is almost as fast as you need ever

the sensor though, which one is better? I dont know
they should be equally good overall

[Dustbak]

... while no 'blad wireless solution that I'm aware of can fully use 1/800th...

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter | RSS Feed
Buy Capture One 6 at 10% off

No problem with either using Pocketwizard or Profoto AIR with my Hasselblad at 1/800th. Only a little bit of light loss with the Elinchrom skyport. Not sure what you are talking about here. If there is any problem using 1/800th with the HB it is due to the wireless combined with the light not the camera.

[evgeny]

Bernard, because Pentax is 14-bit, has built-in digital back, low sync speed, etc

[David Grover / Capture One]

No problem with either using Pocketwizard or Profoto AIR with my Hasselblad at 1/800th. Only a little bit of light loss with the Elinchrom skyport. Not sure what you are talking about here. If there is any problem using 1/800th with the HB it is due to the wireless combined with the light not the camera.

Exactly.

[evgeny]

I try to narrow my needs to the Mamiya DF with 28 mpx Leaf-II 6 to not break bank account.
The release II of the Leaf back has:
- built-in LiveView (no addition hardware to buy)
- better screen ()
- firmware upgrades (till it will be discontinued, as my Leaf 65, in the very near future)
- faster FireWire 800 port.

Is anyone switched from Leaf 65 to the Leaf-II 6 for that addition comfort?
Just to change the Leaf 65 mount from Contax to Mamiya will cost approx $1700.

I will visit a Leaf/P1 dealer here in Israel by the end of this week. I will check the Mamiya DF with 80mm LS lens and a Leaf-II back.
They don't have the Leaf-II 6 in stock, so will demonstrate Leaf-II 8. That 40 megapixel back has higher base ISO 80, and faster 0.8sec vs 1.1sec speed. Is there any other important difference between Leaf-II 6 and Leaf-II 8?

Thanks for advices.
Evgeny

[yaya]

I try to narrow my needs to the Mamiya DF with 28 mpx Leaf-II 6 to not break bank account.
The release II of the Leaf back has:
- built-in LiveView (no addition hardware to buy)
- better screen ()
- firmware upgrades (till it will be discontinued, as my Leaf 65, in the very near future)
- faster FireWire 800 port.

Is anyone switched from Leaf 65 to the Leaf-II 6 for that addition comfort?
Just to change the Leaf 65 mount from Contax to Mamiya will cost approx $1700.

I will visit a Leaf/P1 dealer here in Israel by the end of this week. I will check the Mamiya DF with 80mm LS lens and a Leaf-II back.
They don't have the Leaf-II 6 in stock, so will demonstrate Leaf-II 8. That 40 megapixel back has higher base ISO 80, and faster 0.8sec vs 1.1sec speed. Is there any other important difference between Leaf-II 6 and Leaf-II 8?

Thanks for advices.
Evgeny

On the DF and LS lenses with both II 6 and II 8 you get 1/1,600 sync (if you need that sort of functionality). If you change the mount on your back you will get "only" 1/800.

And the screen is enabled when you shoot tethered, for checking focus etc.

[evgeny]

I tested both cameras, and found Mamiya too big and heavy. With grip it's ever bigger, and not much lighter. H4D better fits in my hands.

I bought Hasselblad H4D-40 with 50mm-II and 100mm lenses, and some small accessories.

Interesting, Ventizz bought Hasselblad two days later after I bought the H4D-40 camera, and so Phase One bought Leaf a few months after I bough Leaf 65 in 2009. Unfortunately Leaf/PhaseOne doesn't provide firmware upgrades for non-II backs. I hope that new Hasselblad joint venture will provide firmware upgrades for current products.

[design_freak]

I hope that new Hasselblad joint venture will provide firmware upgrades for current products.

Not at all
 Do not buy a wreck, to continue to rust. You buy, renovate and sell at a profit.
 So peace of mind. They will now try as never before. They should ...

[design_freak]

And I almost forgot. You have made the right choice

[JV]

Good choice!  Please also keep us posted on how that 50mm-II is working out for you.  It is a relatively new lens.  And some feedback on how it performs would be great!