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Author Topic: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300  (Read 4923 times)

deanwork

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Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« on: May 26, 2011, 12:10:01 pm »

I just set up my new 8300 last  night and it all went extremely smoothly and I'm printing big prints with it today out of the Canon plug-in.

The first thing I've noticed is how much faster it is in bi directional rather than unidirectional. I"m doing a couple of 30x40 tests of the same file right now to see if there is a visible difference.

For photographic imagery is anyone using uni primarily ( larger prints especially on gloss media)?

I can't find on the wiki where anyone has published tests comparisons.

Also is there any need to do a head alignment with one or the other if you change this print speed?

John
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bill t.

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2011, 05:50:30 pm »

Darned if I can see a difference on my 8300, although I'm 100% canvas these days.  If you want you can do a calibration on the specific media if it's more or less smooth, or on a similar thickness media if it's not.  Get out the magnifier.

Made three, 31 x 90 prints in exactly 77 minutes late last night, got to bed at a decent hour.  Lots of vertical stands of grass 90 degrees to the head path, they look sharp as a tack.  Let's all hear it for bi-directional!  And those blue gradations are to die for, love that printer!




« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 05:52:03 pm by bill t. »
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deanwork

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2011, 06:33:47 pm »

Thanks Bill.

Yea while I was setting this printer up today I did 7 30x40s, alternating between uni and bidirectional, 8 bits sent to the printer and I can't tell the difference with this particular work at this scale. The print time for me was 12 minutes each at bidirectional and 21 min each with the uni. These were on the Canon Satin HW 300 gsm paper.  My rip time for each was between 8 and 10 seconds before it started  printing out of a Mac Pro and a usb connection. If that is slower than the 9900 I'm fine with it :-).

I've already noticed greater gamut in the blues and reds compared to the Z. The dither looks really sharp to me.

I"m thinking a motorized take up reel is in order for this printer. Don't know how much they cost? With that 80 gig hard drive I can set up a days work and let it go while I sleep.

Does that cutter cut canvas ok?

Next week I'm going to do some serious black and white tests on all kinds of media with the plug in and and True Black and White.

john



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neile

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2011, 08:25:06 pm »

No issues on my end doing bi-di on my 8300. And no issues cutting canvas so far!

Neil
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Josh-H

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2011, 09:22:58 pm »

I have not tried Bi-Directional printing. I just set it to uni from day dot since the manual said use uni for the best quality. However, it does not surprise me that there is no visible difference between uni or bi printing - just a time difference in printing.
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bradleygibson

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2011, 01:55:32 am »

Bi-di baby.  Make sure it's calibrated and enjoy the time savings.  Can't see the difference, so why not?
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2011, 04:04:02 am »


I"m thinking a motorized take up reel is in order for this printer. Don't know how much they cost? With that 80 gig hard drive I can set up a days work and let it go while I sleep.

john

And not worry about one nozzle getting asleep. So you cut the knot on the 8300, good decision I think.

The only complaint I heard on Canon LF take up reels was that the iPF9000 take up reel was not bidiredictional :-) it may have improved on the 8300. On the Epson 118800 you can switch between against the curl (so decurl) or go with the curl.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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deanwork

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2011, 09:35:34 am »

Yea Ernst,

This appears to be an industrial strength machine and it even sound like one when it's doing it's thing.

After being totally happy over the years with the Z3100, I kind of felt bad about not picking up the Z3200 at such truely amazingly low prices, even better than the Canon at the moment. But after restoring my Z3100 and adding an additional warranty, I'm really going to have the best of both worlds, permanence and dmax on the Z and speed and gamut on the 8300.

Now I can use ALL my Epsons for Cone black and white.

j
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Light Seeker

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2011, 05:07:40 pm »

I'm glad to hear that you've joined the 8300 user community John. I am beyond being pleased with this printer.

I just started to experiment with the True Black and White demo. The first "neutral" print I made on gloss using True B/W was more pleasing to look at then a print I made using Canon's b&w mode. True B/W uses only K and the two grays for a neutral print, so it's just slightly on the warm side, but not by much. The print appears neutral when I lay it against the one made using Canon's b&w mode set to neutral, and the tonality is very pleasing. It was easy to linearize that profile, but I have not played around with ink limits or ink curves yet. Not being able to save a profile with the demo version creates some limitations.

The cutter has worked very well for me on canvas.

Terry.
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deanwork

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2011, 08:57:53 am »

Terry,

And after using HP for so long I'm very pleased with the sheet feeding, though not as easy as Epson.

Are you using QTR to lineraize the grayscale with TBW?
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Light Seeker

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2011, 05:15:41 pm »

And after using HP for so long I'm very pleased with the sheet feeding, though not as easy as Epson.

My son asked me to print a few large blocks of text on letter sized paper last night. I showed him how they fed through the big machine, and said it would not be any fun printing a report this way!

Are you using QTR to lineraize the grayscale with TBW?

I imagine you could use QTR, but you would have to embed the profile in the file since TWB is a stand-alone application. There is a Linearization screen in TBW where you can directly enter either Lab or Density values measured from a 52 step wedge. EyeOne values can go directly in. The same screen has a button to load the 52 step wedge in for printing. The process is pretty easy. I was hoping that loading values without saving would show me the impact of linearizing, but it doesn't appear so. I also wanted to try making a Sepia to Neutral split tone but that also requires the curve to be saved. I may have missed something, so I'll probably call them early next week. It would be nice to try some of this out before buying.

I made a few prints on matte and gloss using existing profiles. I'm going to print the same images with my Cone inks and see how they compare. I'm curious to see how far the 3 blacks on the 8300 will take me, and hoping the improved dot placement will help.

Terry.
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deanwork

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2011, 09:37:30 pm »

Terry,

That's cool. You are ahead of me. I haven't started with TBW yet but will this week.

Yea we need to see how it linearizes and carries over to different files to judge its capability. And you are totally right, I want to see the features of split hue capability with the options in these 12 inks. I'll call them too and ask the same questions you are going to. It isn't totally cheap so I want it offer something significant if I'm going to buy it. It is amazing this product has been out a year now and no one is talking about it really in terms of day to day creative use.

j
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Light Seeker

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2011, 08:08:35 pm »

I'm looking forward to hearing what you find, John.

It is odd that we've not heard more from TBW users. Perhaps the built-in BW mode is considered sufficient. For me, even if three inks turn out to cover a lot of ground, I would be hard-pressed to live without split-toning.

The other issue may be ease of use. The product seems to have all the right tools, but there is limited information on curve building strategies. I've found only a few bits and pieces on how to set ink limits or define curves. There is a brief tutorial that comes with the 8300 curves download that describes how to set up a single black channel, and some information at the link below. The on-line videos describe what the tools do, but stop short of telling you how to use them. It will take some playing around to get a handle on all of this, and with QTR there is a user community and documentation to work with. The learning curve may have dissuaded others, although I suspect that simply linearizing an existing curve will produce better output than the built-in approach.

http://www.bowhaus.com/news/qc.php4

Terry.

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neile

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2011, 08:54:22 pm »

The downside for me of TBW is that it's Mac only. Kinda stymies those of us on Windows :(

Neil
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Neil Enns
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artbot

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2011, 11:50:01 pm »

for most printers uni is only for certain very high resolution medias and even certain colors can be troublesome because of the lawnmower effect.  thermal print heads seem to deal with this better than piezo:

there are some color/media/print-mode combinations that will create banding. the reason uni can do what bi directional can't is two things. think of the the ink dots like bombs and the head carriage like the bomber. in uni the plane only drops bombs in one direction. therefore any calibrated point, will drop bombs perfectly in the feed direction (the media feed is going out). bi requires the printer to coordinate a position for both left and right bombers to land perfectly in the same feed position. this doesn't get rid of or create banding in itself. it gets rid of a blur effect in which say a tiny vertical line needs a crisp vertical edge. the printer also lays down ink colors in a sequence (cmyk, etc). each ink has a slightly different viscosity, dry time, opacity... when the printer goes left the sequence creates the color. when it goes right...the sequence creates the color in reverse, allowing minute difference in the blend of the color. (left yellow beneath cyan, right cyan beneath yellow). in uni, the entire image is only, for instance, yellow beneath cyan, for all passes.
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Light Seeker

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2011, 02:46:17 am »

The downside for me of TBW is that it's Mac only. Kinda stymies those of us on Windows :(

That's a very good point Neil. I need to call them with some questions and if I don't forget, I'll ask about a PC version.

Terry.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2011, 02:57:15 am »

The other question is whether they could build in support for custom B&W inksets on the Canon printers, there are some nice combinations to consider. It would already be possible with some RGB curve wrestling in Paul Roark style but control on individual channels, partitioning and linearisation is just better.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

New: Spectral plots of +250 inkjet papers:

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
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Light Seeker

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2011, 04:05:03 am »

The other question is whether they could build in support for custom B&W inksets

Ernst, it's all there. You can set ink limits for each channel, create custom curves using a set of splines for each channel, and then linearize the whole works.

Terry.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2011, 04:16:23 am »

Strange not a word of that in the intros. No Mac here so no chance to look in the demo. I have another Canon printer and ink set in mind but given your reply, TBW + two hexatone sets or three quad sets on an iPF8300 would create a Gatling gun equivalent in B&W printing ?

Edit: O.K. I see other Bowhaus pages now. I have often been there but did not see progress for the Canon version and was afraid it would be restricted to the Canon ink set this time unlike their older Epson efforts.

met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

New: Spectral plots of +250 inkjet papers:

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 04:34:15 am by Ernst Dinkla »
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Light Seeker

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Re: Uni or Bi Directional on IPF 8300
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2011, 04:39:47 am »

TBW + two hexatone sets or three quad sets on an iPF8300 would create a Gatling gun equivalent in B&W printing ?

Now that would be nice!

Edit: O.K. I see other Bowhaus pages now. I have often been there but did not see progress for the Canon version and was afraid it would be restricted to the Canon ink set this time unlike their older Epson efforts.

Did you watch this video. . . .

http://www.trueblackandwhite.com/video3.html


I have another Canon printer and ink set in mind

Which inkset were you thinking about?

Terry.
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