Does Leaf afi have any future?

[henrikfoto]

Is there any news about the Leaf afi cameras?
Have they been taken over by another company that will produse them now or in the near future
and is it a "safe" system to invest into?

I am very tempted by the camera itself and some of the lenses, but will it be a dead and like the Contax 645?

Henrik

[Anders_HK]

Hi Henrik,

I tend to believe so, yes. However, that depends on Leaf who is rumored to own the rights to Hy6 camera... and if they develop the Afi backs beyond Afi-II 12. Perhaps also if they will end up to join DHW for the Hy6 camera and lenses or buy them from DHW for customers, or at least if the Leaf agents will do so... Perhaps it depends on how many buys Afi backs, but I understand they sold quite some of them???  

You can read of the Afi and Hy6 versions of the cameras here http://rolleiflexpages.com/, including of course the unfortunate business history.

DHW is now producing Rolleiflex Hy6 and other Rolleiflex cameras and have also produced new lens, 6x6 film back etc.

Here in Hong Kong there is now an agent for DHW's Rolleiflex, www.livecoal.com.hk . They provide three years warranty, whereof for the first year a free loaner is provided if the Hy6 is sent for service (to DHW). Even that aside there seem advantage to at current go with a Hy6 from DHW because they will support it. I do not know what support there is for the non DHW Hy6 or Afi cameras. My communication with DHW has been direct with their CEO who is very supportive.

Having researched quite a bit when now upgrading my Leaf back, my personal conclusion is that the Hy6 and its lenses is technically and optically superior to Mamiya system. Ergonomics and balance is much superior and the waist level finder is what it should be. Flat out I am tired of the quirks of the Mamiya system. My impression is that the Hy6 seem like the best designed camera for MFDB, period.

The Afi back itself is also a more modern verions of the Leaf backs in design and its tilt screen. It should work great on a tech camera as well.  

With above I have ordered my DHW Hy6 and upgraded to Afi back and actually will receive them in a few hours today . I should mention that per request they can make the DHW Hy6 to accept Leaf battery in handle, what other camera brings this convenience and made today?

Regards
Anders

[henrikfoto]

Hi Anders!

This is great news!

Do you have the impression these newly prodused cameras have exactly the same quality as the
original ones?

Do you know what the price is?

Henrik

[Anders_HK]

Hi Henrik,

I assume that they are same quality and made from parts bin at current. The quality seems really great and they are worth looking into for serious. Dont just go by my word, but do some research and you will find that seems those that use the Hy6 very much like the Hy6 and the Rollei Schneider and Zeiss lenses. As with any system lenses vary, but many are very superb and seem with a real character unlike Mamiya which plain just are sharp, e.g. 45D etc.

Frankly I was looking into Hassy V system, which bodies are made in Goteborg Sweden where I grew up. However... the V system has old design... the Hy6 seems per my imrpession like what a modern version of it should be. The lenses for the Rollei are at least as good as for Hassy.

I purchased mine from 9days.com.hk which is one of the dealers of Livecoal. Also Livecoal can sell you but they keep a higher price than dealers. You can also negotiate with dealer, but I will not disclose the price I pay...

Regards
Anders

[JV]

I have been tempted by the Hy6 (and the Rollei 6008 AF) for a while now.  If you decide to buy a new Hy6 camera from DHW which Leaf backs can you use?  Is it only the latest Aptus-II 12 back?  Or can you use all of the other Aptus-II backs as well?  The Aptus-II 12 is financially out of my reach.  Additionally, do you need to buy the Leaf mount to be able to use the Aptus-II backs?

[bradleygibson]

It's probably best to consider the camera system dead until and unless Phase ressurects it officially.

With that being said, I own an AFi system and do feel it represents the best overall offering medium format has to offer for what I do (nature photography).  DHW does perform repairs and upgrades in Germany, and there has been new announcements for the platform this year (such as 6x6 film backs, the AFi-II 12 digital back, and new lenses).

JV, yes, you need backs with Hy6 or AFi mount--at present, only Leaf and Sinar make these.

Henrik, there is some murkiness as to whether new backs are being produced or existing ones sold from inventory.  In either case, be sure to look for firmware 3.10a3, as this firmware is accompanied by a camera body hardware upgrade (apparently an improved AF module, as well as more robust mechanical attachment for the pivoting handle).

You'll find the AFi's ergonomics second-to-none, but I wouldn't advise anyone to get in at this time unless they were comfortable owning a "dead" system (which, personally, I am).

HTH,
-Brad

[donaldt]

the camera is great, perhaps with the best lens line as well
as far as the system life, though not as dead as the Contax 645, but close enough

[Anders_HK]

the camera is great, perhaps with the best lens line as well
as far as the system life, though not as dead as the Contax 645, but close enough

Exactly!

Well, comparing to my Mamiya 645 AFDIII then what should I do? Upgrade to DF, then to DF2, DF3 until perhaps something comes from P1 that more closely manage to match Hy6 ? ... and which might end up being more $$ on Mamiya bodies than on a Hy6...  

The Hy6 is not dead --- as long as DHW is in business, and... perhaps more likely AFDIII is out of production first... then which is worst? This is why I went with Hy6, plus I am flat tired of Mamiya and their systems and wanted something better and that is made to more professional standards. I understand their DF is better than AFDIII, but seems that DF2 will be based on the DF... Hy6 already and arguably offer the best out there today to go with MFDB. Now I might only stick to the 80mm Xenotar, but even that one should excel for portraits.

Leaf produces Afi backs, which is what go on the Hy6, both their Afi-10 and 12, not sure if Afi-7 & 8 are still produced, but available used.

Actually I would recommend anyone to consider serious, but to research thorough. If worst would come to worst, it will still be the system it is today. Perhaps so also used and new lenses will drop!   My gut down feeling and impression is that I will much enjoy it as a great photographic tool, and that it is a TOOL.  

It's a crying shame that this camera has never had the backing and investment it really deserved. All the more so when you look at the current Phase One platform.

YES! And as stated in above... I was actually looking at the Hassy as way out from Mamiya... the Hy6 won at least me hands down. If I can mention three things only for there are many more: ergonomics/balance, waist level finder, lenses.

Regards
Anders

[EricWHiss]

I just bought a new AFi body from DHW earlier in the year and a new 80mp back to go with it.   I picked the AFi-12 but could also have bought a Sinar back to go with the body.  DHW has come out with 2 new lenses and continues to develop new stuff for the platform.  How dead can that be?

It's a beautiful camera.  I loved the 6008AF and this is even better.  It just completely outclasses the DF body.  

[JV]

I just bought a new AFi body from DHW earlier in the year

Is this the same as saying that you bought a Hy6 from DHW with a Leaf mount?

[tikal]

I have a rollei hy6 and am currently awaiting the 6x6 back. There is a post from a phase rep on their forum saying they have no plans to release an adapter for phase one backs but he pointed to their "sister" company and said leaf has an 80mp for it. So I wouldn't hold my breath for phase to jump on the wagon. I am in constant contact with DHW as well, they are making lenses, as I mentioned I should be receiving my 6x6 film back in 2 days or so. The only thing I can tell you as far as purchasing, if you're not getting a back with it I would suggest contacting DHW directly for the body. the price differences are outrageous.

[EricWHiss]

Is this the same as saying that you bought a Hy6 from DHW with a Leaf mount?

Yes - Hy6/AFi are essentially interchangeable.  My body actually says Rolleiflex Hy6.   I had DHW configure the battery holder in the grip for the leaf style battery.

[EricWHiss]

Forgot to add I think the title is a misnomer. The question is better put, "Does the Hy6" have any future since the camera platform is open to any digital back maker not just Leaf.

[Graham Mitchell]

I'm still planning to buy one, and looking forward to it.

[tikal]

Here is the post I was speaking of

http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=10607

[EricWHiss]

I'm still planning to buy one, and looking forward to it.

Graham,
I think you'll love it.  There's a lot of improvements over the 6000 series bodies and just a lot of extra features like the thumb wheels on the grip that make it even easier to use.  I find that I can hand hold shots at slower shutter speeds on the Hy6 than I could with the 6008AF.  Never used the AF on the 6008AF but do like it on the Hy6 as its faster and more accurate.  The body is lighter, the 45 deg prism better optically.  The list could go on and on.  It's just wonderful.
Eric

[Jack Flesher]

Forgot to add I think the title is a misnomer. The question is better put, "Does the Hy6" have any future since the camera platform is open to any digital back maker not just Leaf.

Remember that Rollie made the body, not Leaf -- Leaf just branded it.  And back when it was introduced was prior to Phase acquiring Leaf and about the same time Hassy and Phase were having issues. And at that time they (Rollie) would not allow Phase to build backs for the Hy6 body.  So it is unlikely that Phase will adopt the platform now to bail out Rollie.  Moreover, their Leaf division currently continues to support the Hy6 mount --- so if you want to use the Rollie system now, buy a Leaf back.  Phase is in the business of selling digital backs, so I suspect that if the Rollie demand gets large enough for it to be financially profitable for them, Phase would start building backs in the Hy6 mount.   

Re the Phase DF.  My guess -- and it's only a guess -- is the next iteration of the Phase One camera body will be a totally new design and likely become an immediate new standard for the industry.  From all appearances Phase has taken the existing body about as far as it can go technically, and the DF is old enough to be nearing a typical end of product cycle.  I'd also assume that any new body they release will use the Mamiya lens and body mounts simply because of the size of the installed user base for Phase M mount backs and lenses. Plus they made recent investments in bringing new M mount lens designs to the system and surely want to expand on those sales.  Again, these are only my assumptions and I offer them only FWIW fodder to those considering investing in an "almost dead" system -- 

My humble .02 only,

[JerryReed]

Having researched quite a bit when now upgrading my Leaf back, my personal conclusion is that the Hy6 and its lenses is technically and optically superior to Mamiya system. Ergonomics and balance is much superior and the waist level finder is what it should be. Flat out I am tired of the quirks of the Mamiya system. My impression is that the Hy6 seem like the best designed camera for MFDB, period.

I quiet agree with you as A SINAR Hy6 owner.  One can hope that sensor will continue to grow larger, and when they reach the full 56 by 56 format we will own the ideal camera.

Jerry Reed

[EricWHiss]

Jack,
it's Rollei, not Rollie and pronounced with the 'i'.    You owe it to yourself to try it again. It's vastly superior in nearly every way to the DF body.  I'll be happy to drive down to Los Gatos and show you why its so excellent if you want.     What happened in the past with Phase, Jenoptic, Sinar and Leaf happened then.  Times are different now.  It makes little business sense to put the best back on the worst body.  Phase should rethink things.
Eric

[David Klepacki]

It's vastly superior in nearly every way to the DF body.
Eric

Eric,

"Vastly superior" in every way?  Really? How do you get your Hy6 to flash sync at 1/1600?  How do you shoot anything faster than 1/1000 with a Hy6, since it does not have a focal plane shutter (and many Rollei PQ lenses only go to 1/500)?  How do you shoot with an ultrawide 28mm lens, or maybe a Zeiss superachromat telephoto lens, when there are no such lenses for the Hy6?

Look, I am happy that you are happy with your Hy6, but please let's curb the enthusiasm here. I have owned both the Hy6 and DF camera systems and have used them extensively.  Both camera systems have their beauty and appeal, and both camera systems are capable of delivering great images.  I did enjoy the rotating back and the multiple viewfinders of the Hy6. However, I must disagree with you that the Hy6 is superior. I find the DF camera to be much more versatile in adapting to various situations with its focal plane shutter as well as having a wider range of lenses available to it. I also find the DF camera to be exceptionally fast and accurate in its focusing, whether it be autofocus or manual focus confirmation, and every bit as good as the Hy6 in this regard.

David