Monitor / Printer Mismatch w i1, Canson Baryta and Epson 3800

[esappin]

Pardon me if this or something similar has already been discussed, but have searched through the forums without finding something related.

Haven't printed in a while and profiled my iMac 27" 2010 vintage today with an i1 using ColorEyesPro.  When I adjust in LR including some plugins and then send to the printer, the print is much redder than what is on the screen.  I am using Canson Baryta Photographique paper and an Epson 3800 printer.  Using the printer profile from the Canson website.  Going to reprofile the monitor now using the default i1 Match software, but suspect it is a printer profile or setting issue.  Any advice on how to correct would be greatly appreciated. 

[Mark D Segal]

Pardon me if this or something similar has already been discussed, but have searched through the forums without finding something related.

Haven't printed in a while and profiled my iMac 27" 2010 vintage today with an i1 using ColorEyesPro.  When I adjust in LR including some plugins and then send to the printer, the print is much redder than what is on the screen.  I am using Canson Baryta Photographique paper and an Epson 3800 printer.  Using the printer profile from the Canson website.  Going to reprofile the monitor now using the default i1 Match software, but suspect it is a printer profile or setting issue.  Any advice on how to correct would be greatly appreciated. 

These problems usually require a bit of trouble-shooting. The very first thing I would look for is whether your printer has clogged nozzles, especially as you say you haven't printed for a while. For example, if any of the cyan is clogged, prints could emerge reddish. The second key suspect on the list is the printer profile. To test for this, I recommend using a sheet of Epson Premium Luster and the Epson canned profile for Premium Luster, and see whether your results still come out that way. If they look normal, it means the problem is likely the Canson printer profile. It is not unusual for profiles from paper suppliers to be less than satisfactory. Before concluding that, however, double-check that the media type setting you are using for that profile is the correct one (for example if Canson says you should key the profile to Epson Premium Luster, make sure that is the selected paper type in Lightroom). The profile won't perform properly if it is keyed to a paper type that is different from the one the profile was made to be used with. I think problems with your display profile are less likely to result in a red cast, unless it is way off, causing you to make radical white balance corrections. But it's not out of the question. I would try these other printer-related things first.

[howardm]

are you using the i1  PRO (spectroradiometer) or the i1D2 colorimeter?

doesn't that iMac have LED backlighting?


Maybe it's early in the morning for me but you would need to select the appropriate Epson paper in the print driver, NOT the Lightroom Print module (you'd use the Canson profile there)

[Rhossydd]

Are you using the latest profiles from Canson ?
If I remember rightly there were some duff profiles briefly posted there that were later replaced with better ones, so it might be worth downloading them again if you've had them a while.

[esappin]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I've redownloaded the Canson paper profile for the 3800, reprofiled the monitor and still had the same issue.  Does not appear to be a print head problem as the reds are most off, but other colors are also shifted.  Doing some research online, appears to be an issue because cannot turn off printer color management in Lightroom when going to print.  This is apparently a problem with LR 3 that Adobe has yet to address (the color management dialog is not available).  Adobe has created a stopgap by issuing a separate program called  "color printer utility."  Very rudimentary (need to go individually to find a photo on the hard disk to select) and cannot use paper profiles, but when printing with it the photo is now 90+% accurate on the colors. 

If anyone has a better idea on how to print directly from LR and be able to turn off printer color management I'm all ears.  Otherwise, looks like I'm stuck with this less than optimal solution.

Thanks again for the help.

[Mark D Segal]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I've redownloaded the Canson paper profile for the 3800, reprofiled the monitor and still had the same issue.  Does not appear to be a print head problem as the reds are most off, but other colors are also shifted.  Doing some research online, appears to be an issue because cannot turn off printer color management in Lightroom when going to print.  This is apparently a problem with LR 3 that Adobe has yet to address (the color management dialog is not available).  Adobe has created a stopgap by issuing a separate program called  "color printer utility."  Very rudimentary (need to go individually to find a photo on the hard disk to select) and cannot use paper profiles, but when printing with it the photo is now 90+% accurate on the colors. 

If anyone has a better idea on how to print directly from LR and be able to turn off printer color management I'm all ears.  Otherwise, looks like I'm stuck with this less than optimal solution.

Thanks again for the help.

Did you try ANY of the suggestions in Reply #1?

The ability to turn off colour management has nothing whatsoever to do with your problem. That is only an issue for printing your own targets to make your own printing profiles. The Adobe Color Print Utility is ONLY for printing those targets. That ain't your issue.

Your problem remains un-analyzed. And you should not have to make prints from a utility not designed for that purpose.

[esappin]

Mark,

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I did print with Epson luster using an Epson luster profile and having selected luster paper.  Same problem with very red / oversaturated print.  So it appears not to be the Canson profile.  Fishing around here, dpreview and Adobe forums I uncovered that a lot of people seem to have the same problem.  Adobe specifically says to ensure printer color management is turned off when using an ICC paper profile, but it is not possible to do it within LR when I go to print. 

Thanks,
Ed   

[Mark D Segal]

Mark,

Sorry, I should have mentioned that I did print with Epson luster using an Epson luster profile and having selected luster paper.  Same problem with very red / oversaturated print.  So it appears not to be the Canson profile.  Fishing around here, dpreview and Adobe forums I uncovered that a lot of people seem to have the same problem.  Adobe specifically says to ensure printer color management is turned off when using an ICC paper profile, but it is not possible to do it within LR when I go to print.  

Thanks,
Ed  

Yes you can turn printer colour management OFF from Lightroom. You must. That is probably the cause of the problem you are having. In the colour management section of Lightroom at the bottom of the Print Interface menu (right side of the application window), there is a dropdown for colour management. Where it says profile, select the printer profile you will be using; that tells Lightroom you don't want the printer managing colour. BUT THEN - and this is VITAL - in the Epson driver, find the tab for the colour management settings and make sure that Printer Colour management is OFF (no colour management). I don't have that version of the Epson driver (I'm on a 4900 now), but check your manual and you will see exactly where to find this. Once you've done those two things I expect you will see a vast improvement. Let us know!

[esappin]

So the problem is, that I can't turn the color management off in LR for the Epson driver.  When I go to the printer color management settings, the panel is blank.  So there is no way to turn it off.  If I am in advanced b&w black, the printer color management works just fine and I can turn it off/on as I wish.

So that is why I tried using the color printer utility.  But as you pointed out that is not really meant for making regular prints.  Have to go on a work trip tomorrow, but when I'm back next weekend going to try to uninstall and reinstall LR and the printer drivers to see if I can get it working properly.

[howardm]

then you need to troubleshoot backwards a bit more and figure out why the CM pulldwn in the driver is greyed out.  It shouldn't be.

[Mark D Segal]

So the problem is, that I can't turn the color management off in LR for the Epson driver.  When I go to the printer color management settings, the panel is blank.  So there is no way to turn it off.  If I am in advanced b&w black, the printer color management works just fine and I can turn it off/on as I wish.

So that is why I tried using the color printer utility.  But as you pointed out that is not really meant for making regular prints.  Have to go on a work trip tomorrow, but when I'm back next weekend going to try to uninstall and reinstall LR and the printer drivers to see if I can get it working properly.

I don't think reinstalling LR is worthwhile, because as long as it loads your printer profile it's done its job. Re-installing/updating the printer driver may be worthwhile. If you can't manage the colour handling settings in the Epson driver after doing that, I recommend you call Epson tech support and ask for assistance.

[Shane Webster]

When I go to the printer color management settings, the panel is blank.

I don't know if you're on the MacOS or WindowsOS, but on the MacOS, you don't actually use the Color Matching section to adjust the color settings (nothing is selectable).  You turn color management off at the printer level from the Print Settings drop down (see attached picture).  The 4900 driver automatically turns it off for you when a profile is selected in LR but not so with the 7880 (and I suspect the 3800 as well, but I don't know).