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Author Topic: Printing on Wood Vaneer???  (Read 9835 times)

hud

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Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« on: May 08, 2011, 09:31:56 pm »

Has anyone had any luck printing on wooden vaneer?  I'm looking at small sizes, 3x5 or 4x6.

Any advice would be really helpful.

much thanks,

jack hudkins
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bill t.

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2011, 01:20:41 am »

Aren't some small printers designed to print on CD's?  Might be some possibilities there.

Sign companies have flatbed printers that can easily print on very thick material, but for those guys 4 x 6 FEET is small!
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Colorwave

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2011, 01:32:21 am »

Most wood veneer is in the ballpark, in terms of thickness, of heavy fine art papers.  You would want to have a printer with a relatively flat paper path to be successful.  I have a client that paints on hardwood plywood, and would be curious as to how well the process works. 

As Bill mentions, a flatbed printer, of which most are solvent or ecosolvent based, would likely be your best bet.  If you could find one with a white ink available, I would think you would have the best results, as you are only going to be able to darken the tone of the wood with most fine art inksets.  I could see a blond wood working, as long as the absorption is not too bad.  There is always Inkaid, as an option. 

If I was going to experiment, I would look into a UV flatbed and precoated veneers like Braewood prefinished veneer.  Braewood comes with a phenolic backing, like plastic laminates, and a polyurethane topcoat.  It is already finished and ready to print on (assuming you do not have any resist problems with the ink).  There would at least not be any absorption issues.  You could topcoat the print with another layer of polyurethane, if the sheen differential was not pleasing.  Keep us posted if you happen to pursue this.
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artbot

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2011, 02:49:10 am »

i print on wood veneer quite often.  maybe about 20% of my business.  there are a couple things to consider. 

of course you will need a straight feed printer.  roland, mimaki, mutoh, epson...  some woods work better than others because of the warping of the material.  for instance white oak usually is very very flat.  mahogany can be flat (get the wood backed... paper back veneers in all types are usually not very stable).  as far as it passing through the printer, it's so light weight an air table or rollers isn't needed. 

as far a finishing, i'd go prefinished to start.  but if it's going to be a business...you will have clients wanting this color and that color for instance below is a link where the client wanted greens, blues, corals, etc. and i built them a sign to match the printed wall.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alldredge/sets/72157626473720326/show/

also, some wood colors are very dark so white ink is the way to go for that.  mimaki, roland, and even epson (water based) all have white ink.  and no you don't have to have a white ink printer.  just stick it in your black channel and print a grayscale file, or whatever your rip needs.  clean it out and go back to color.  this isn't something you'll want to do unless there's sevaral (or 10's) thousands of dollars involved because of the hassle.  below is a slide show of a project on mahogany using white ink (and brown).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alldredge/sets/72157626414222282/show/

also, this is a col trick.  fake laser etching.  you can print a file that looks like laser etching on to veneer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alldredge/sets/72157623952389804/show/
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Colorwave

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2011, 02:54:13 am »

Nice!
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dgberg

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2011, 06:16:45 am »

What Alan is doing is the real deal and I mean the real deal. Very nice by the way.
The poor mans solution (My way.) is what is called the film transfer to wood using supersause solution made famous by Bonnie Lhotka. (And probably others.)
In short you take the DASS supersause concentrate and mix with 91% alcohol to get your supersause solution.
After printing your image on the film you spread the solution on your wood substrate. You then lay the printed film image onto your coated substrate. Roll it down carefully for about 3 minutes then peel it off and you have your image transferred to wood.
I purchased a 24" roll of film along with the concentrate solutions. You can do transfers to wood,metal and tiles.
I also have a pack of the stone paper(Made from crushed stones) for the stoneage emulsion transfer to paper projects.
Very fun to do.
The last transfer process is the alcohol gel transfer to paper. When Bonnie does it she puts Purell hand sanitizer (Thats the gel) onto arches 88 silkscreen paper.
Prints the image on the film then transfers the image off the film to the paper.
All pretty cool stuff to fool around with.

For all you sharp guys and gals that noticed the 9-11-01 is printed backwards in the image below,it is.
Before printing these on film you need to go into Photoshop/Image/Image Rotation and Flip Horizontal.
Now it will print correctly. I forgot when printing this one.

1/4" plywood with image transfer process.
Image copyright credit - Tim Youse
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 10:07:44 am by Dan Berg »
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hud

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2011, 09:17:35 am »

Wow, thanks Artbot!!!

best, jack.
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hud

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2011, 09:18:17 am »

Thanks Dan, great advise also!

And thanks to everyone for the help!!

best, jack.
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AFairley

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2011, 08:21:37 pm »

Artbot, that is nice work indeed! 
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artbot

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2011, 09:25:54 pm »

thanks for the props... printing on veneer isn't fun.  lot's of cussing because of a head crashes, finishing issues, matching grain. 
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neile

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2011, 09:44:54 pm »

The poor mans solution (My way.) is what is called the film transfer to wood using supersause solution made famous by Bonnie Lhotka. (And probably others.)
In short you take the DASS supersause concentrate and mix with 91% alcohol to get your supersause solution.
After printing your image on the film you spread the solution on your wood substrate. You then lay the printed film image onto your coated substrate. Roll it down carefully for about 3 minutes then peel it off and you have your image transferred to wood.

Do you have to use their film? Or will Pictorico OHP work?

Neil
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Neil Enns
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artbot

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2011, 10:40:45 pm »

i've used a clear film i think it's oce' designed for an hp1050c. works well and handles the pigmented ink.  cheap too.  almost free.
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neile

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2011, 11:04:22 pm »

Ok, because I have a ton of Pictorico lying around for digital negative work. Man that supersauce solution is expensive though!

Neil
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Neil Enns
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dgberg

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2011, 12:01:04 am »

Way over priced I agree. I wanted to purchase a gallon and they only have pints. She sells to mostly crafters and really wants to hold the line on pricing by selling small quantities. The concentrate is not too bad as you mix 4 ounces of it with 16 ounces of alcohol.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 06:14:19 am by Dan Berg »
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artbot

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2011, 12:34:52 am »

does anyone know what the main ingredients are?  it's probably not that terribly complicated of a mix.    i've never seen the stuff.  i'd figure it's some kind of carboset acrylic dispersion. (and like most chemical blends...it's probably marked up 1000%)
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 02:55:35 am by artbot »
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BannerB

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2011, 01:55:18 am »

Wow... incredible idea! Definitely going to be watching this thread for ideas...

what will they think of next.. hahah
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2011, 09:31:26 am »

does anyone know what the main ingredients are?  it's probably not that terribly complicated of a mix.    i've never seen the stuff.  i'd figure it's some kind of carboset acrylic dispersion. (and like most chemical blends...it's probably marked up 1000%)
I just looked at the website and cannot find any MSDS for this product.  The only warning is about the flammability of the product which she states is the same warning as on isopropyl alcohol.  Since I will likely never use this product, I'm not terribly interested in pursuing further information only to note that OSHA requires a MSDS for every product where there is a potentially hazardous product that will be used in a workplace.  And it must present the hazards associated with the various components of the mixture, if there are any.  (for example you can access the MSDS for all the various inksets for Epson printers).
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Light Seeker

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2011, 12:34:41 pm »

You then lay the printed film image onto your coated substrate. Roll it down carefully for about 3 minutes then peel it off and you have your image transferred to wood.
I purchased a 24" roll of film along with the concentrate solutions. You can do transfers to wood,metal and tiles.

Dan, have you tried making a transfer onto aluminum? If so, is this worth pursuing as opposed to a direct print?

Terry.
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dgberg

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2011, 12:45:38 pm »

Yes I have done the film transfer to aluminum and it comes out pretty decent.
Although it is not quite up to the quality of a direct print. It is primarily for thick substrates that will not fit into the printer like  Dibond or thicker wood materials. If you have aluminum that will fit through the printer you will get better results. Some folks are  apprehensive about head strikes when putting metal through their printers.
Also good if your printer does not have a straight print path.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 01:07:04 pm by Dan Berg »
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enduser

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Re: Printing on Wood Vaneer???
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2011, 01:53:27 am »

A request to "artbot": How is the veneer prepared before putting through the printer, what pre-coats etc?

Many thanks for illuminating a whole new side to wide format printing.  Having these machines means for us that we look for all possible uses.
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