Ground Zero remembered

[Rocco Penny]

oh I remember it alright-
the 20,000 fighters we let go to the hills,
the million+ civilians KILLED in Iraq
the 3 billions and counting
the crash of the American way of life for 1 nutjob
now my new memories abound with cameras on every corner, grandmas accosted and then denied justice
people looking at my Daughter through an xray that shows every part-
what a bunch of suckers alright
don't anybody say I told you so, but,
oh nevermind

[RSL]

When there's no chance that you'll have to put your ass on the line because there are people willing to put their asses on the line to keep your ass off the line, then you can afford to have opinions rooted in an elevated sensibility about how war should be conducted and how the justice system ought to treat maniac killers. If you have to put your ass on the line and deal with the actual situation your elevated sensibility tends to descend. I'm so sick and tired of hearing abstract theories from people who haven't a clue about combat I'm ready to barf.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

When there's no chance that you'll have to put your ass on the line because there are people willing to put their asses on the line to keep your ass off the line, then you can afford to have opinions rooted in an elevated sensibility about how war should be conducted and how the justice system ought to treat maniac killers. If you have to put your ass on the line and deal with the actual situation your elevated sensibility tends to descend. I'm so sick and tired of hearing abstract theories from people who haven't a clue about combat I'm ready to barf.

And you know what Russ ?
The worst thing is many people have to put their ass on the line for things other people have screwed up with bad politics who never had to put their ass on the line.
There are reasons why politics and military are separated - but sometimes, I think, it would be good to have the people making politics suffer the consequences of the crap they produce.
I imagine it quite hard for a soldier to question what he's is doing and has to do in war when he is in the situation and has no more choices and others have chosen for him ...

[Rocco Penny]

Old argument,
already know how it'll end-
but,
for the sake of appearing to care about more than human suffering,
my number is a miswrite-
not used to saying trillions, so for the record,
the US Congress agrees the cost of the war since 9/11 to be almost 2 trillion

2trillion

let's see,
assigning a value to life as Dow did in Bhopal, or BP is doing in the Gulf Of Mexico,
or any other number of instances where the value of American lives would still exceed the value of all other nationalities combined,
well let's agree we could've given the root of this problem a real solution.
Buy a trillion dollars worth of anyplace the better the best-
give every person in the camps in Palestine or being denied justice anywhere in Israel a visa to this trillion dollar paradise.
The other trillion could go to getting them on their feet.
Alternatively give some god forsaken corner of America so full of red stater supporters of whichever cause our noble and fine government and media portrays as the right thing and let them go-
I mean we're talking about Israel now
Our friends and ally
Give em some portion of tri state NMAZUT they like the desert.
they're used to having to eke a living from hardscrabble-
no one to fight with-\
We Americans know a good deal when we see one-
They'd have the border problem solved in a month-
give all the Mexicans permits like they do in Palestine
enforce the border protection like they do Gaza
kill 2 birds w/1 stone
not arguing or anything-
I know how it'll end

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

Well Rocco - we shouldn't forget what soldiers suffer in war.
I think I can understand Russ quite well as far as possible for a non-soldier,
since I have served but never encountered combat.
And my current work with many traumatized people helps a bit.

But I also think your arguments are quite valid.

I hope we can keep it civilized - this is a "hot topic" thread.

[RSL]

I hope we can keep it civilized -

War definitely is not civilized. The sooner people understand that the better we'll all be. But in the meantime, you have to fight if you're attacked. If you try to fight in a civilized way, you'll lose.

[Christoph C. Feldhaim]

War definitely is not civilized. The sooner people understand that the better we'll all be. But in the meantime, you have to fight if you're attacked. If you try to fight in a civilized way, you'll lose.

I simply was referring to our discussion.
And I assume we're not at war here ....

[Rob C]

War definitely is not civilized. The sooner people understand that the better we'll all be. But in the meantime, you have to fight if you're attacked. If you try to fight in a civilized way, you'll lose.

Hi Russ

I quote myself:

"Donning boxing gloves and chatting about Queensberry ain't gonna save your skin on any street corner, and if you think the world isn't a huge such corner, you don't think, you haven't had to think, or you just haven't been anywhere."

I think we both agree on that one!

Rob C

[RSL]

Yes we do.

Finally back in Colorado. Still unpacking.