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Author Topic: Phase one P20+ images and Photoshop  (Read 3530 times)

ron lacy

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Phase one P20+ images and Photoshop
« on: April 28, 2011, 12:15:24 pm »

I am talking to a guy about purchasing his Hassy system that includes a Phase One P20+ back.  If I buy it, can I process the images in PS and LR or do I have to buy and use Capture One?  I have been told I can process the images in PS & LR but it is more difficult and I need to buy Capture One--which is expensive.  Any information you can give me would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ron
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase one P20+ images and Photoshop
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2011, 12:42:05 pm »

I have been told I can process the images in PS & LR but it is more difficult and I need to buy Capture One--which is expensive.  Any information you can give me would be appreciated.

First: yes, Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom (assuming you're using current or recent versions) are directly compatible with the raw files produced by a Phase One P20+. See here.

However I'd strongly encourage you to use Capture One with such files. The team that makes the backs and the team that writes the software are literally down the hall from each other and they have the best incentive of anyone to make the files shine. A lot of proprietary/dedicated math/information such as tweaking the algorithms specifically to a sensor without an AA-filter, creating ICC profiles specifically (and with enormous effort/care) for various light sources like daylight, flash, and tungsten, creating ICC profiles specifically for skintone, creating lens corrections for specific lenses (distortion, sharpness falloff, light falloff) such as the Hassy 35mm, and the dark frame data used in long exposures.

In addition there are several features and differences in workflow that I prefer in C1 (though of course LR is also a great program). Specifically for your work the Skin Tone Editor in C1 (the section of the Color Editor - not the eye drop utility) is phenomenal and can save considerable workflow time while increasing the quality and consistency of skin-tone in your work. And the iPad app is really useful as well as sexy when shooting with more than just you and the subject - art directors, assistants, clients etc.

Capture One DB is free and requires no registration/license nor has any restrictions on the number of computers you can use it on. It's available for download at phaseone.com.

Capture One PRO does cost $400. I think it's well worth it for many reasons. However, it's only needed to process Canon/Nikon/Sony/Leica files etc.

Basically Team Phase One (Phase, Mamiya, Leaf with partnership with Schneider) make digital backs and Capture One software. If you use the software with the hardware they make then it's free to do so - and they promise it will always be free to do so. It's only if you want to use the software they make (Capture One) with other cameras that some one else makes that you ever need to pay.

You might take a read through our Capture One Blog or watch the Capture One Videos to see some of the features you'd benefit from switching from LR.

I must also (selfishly - see signature) tell you that I always recommend against finding a deal and then evaluating if it's right for you. It's much better to step back, evaluate your needs, and decide what would be right for you - then find a good deal on it. If you're buying a digital back for the first time you might consider what value a dealer could play in the process. This is only the first of many questions that will come up for you and having a team of experts whose job and profession it is specifically to help you with these kinds of questions is worth something. Does it come with the latest firmware - is it compatible with the latest firmware updater or will it need to be updated via a dealer or a service check in NY? Is the sensor clean and scratch free, are there any dead pixels, does the flash sync port work. Are you ok with the square format - would other square format options be preferable? Does it come with the original cables, batteries, charger and if so what's the condition of these as they wear out over time and create all sorts of headaches if not in good shape.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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bcooter

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Re: Phase one P20+ images and Photoshop
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2011, 05:20:30 am »

First: yes, Adobe Camera Raw and Lightroom (assuming you're using current or recent versions) are directly compatible with the raw files produced by a Phase One P20+. See here.


I can tell you from a lot of experience that for large amount of files, especially in the early stages of web galleries, C-1 has the best look for Canon files and obviously for Phase products, at least my p21+ and P30+.

For single image processing and finish out, it's a little different workflow.

I'll use C-1 a lot of the time for finish out of Canon files though every outside retoucher i use also asks for a raw file to accompany the tiff and 99.99999999999999999999999% of every retoucher I work with processes everything in photoshop.

Even the retouchers I have on contract, who I have bought C-1 liscense's for still use photoshop because that's what they know, that's what they like, etc. etc.

Now the most interesting thing is I'm working in a mixed light or continuous light situation, I process the finish out of Phase files in Raw Developer.  I think it produces the most film like look of any processor and cuts down the db's tendency to pick up ambient light color.  I guess I could say it's more film like.

It's not as easy, fast or sophisticated as C-1, but it Raw Developer sure makes a beautiful file.

IMO

BC

P.S.  We just finished a large project and our studio manager began the early processing for web galleries.  He loves lightroom for it's ease and the fact he is more comfortable with it.  I told him I don't care which processor he uses, as long as it's pretty, but before he just drops everything into one software, compare the look of the files from lightroom to C-1.

He went with C-1.

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akk2

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Re: Phase one P20+ images and Photoshop
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 05:59:05 pm »

I did use my P20+ and Lightroom for a while. The color profiles in c1 is a bit better (more nature)
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Cineski

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Re: Phase one P20+ images and Photoshop
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 09:52:50 am »

I constantly hear from Capture One users how amazed they are at the image quality.  I really want to get Pro at some point just for my Canon files.  Wonder how it does with film scans or is it a RAW file reader only?
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Phase one P20+ images and Photoshop
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2011, 10:28:29 am »

I constantly hear from Capture One users how amazed they are at the image quality.  I really want to get Pro at some point just for my Canon files.  Wonder how it does with film scans or is it a RAW file reader only?

It will read your film scans if they are in flattened TIFF or (*shudders*) JPG format, but it's designed as a raw processor and does not support any of the raw/pseudo-raw scanning formats. Most of the magic of pushing pixels around requires access to the original captured data (raw) rather than a already-baked version of it.

So I wouldn't bother to use it for your film scans except in so far as you could keep them in the same workflow (making it easy e.g. to process web-sized jpgs with a watermark from a folder containing some raws and some scans).

Just download the trial which is free and fully functional for 30 days. If you decide purchase we have a Capture One 10% off discount code. The only thing that matters is what you find with your files and your needs. That said, frequent testimonials here and offline about the quality of C1 as a raw processor, tethering app, and workflow tool should help convince you it's worth your time to do the legwork.

Of course it helps to get properly trained before you conclude too much. Like any tool the results are greatly influenced by you knowing how to use the tool best. We (Capture Integration) have C1 training across the US and dealers throughout the world can arrange training/education of varying kinds. And of course there is always the free Capture One Tutorial Videos.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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Schewe

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Re: Phase one P20+ images and Photoshop
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2011, 06:43:53 pm »

I have been told I can process the images in PS & LR but it is more difficult and I need to buy Capture One--which is expensive.

Not withstanding the previous posters...in my experience, Capture 1 will by default clearly produce a "better" result...but that's talking about the default settings of profiles and color rendering and tones in C1 vs ACR/LR.

Somebody practiced in the use of Camera Raw or Lightroom can produce results that rival (or perhaps exceed) the results from Capture 1. It all depends on how good you are at using the toolset found in ACR/LR (and assuming the current version of both; LR 3.4 & ACR 6.4).

C1 is a capable processing tool–particularly for P1 backs. I use C1 to shoot with my P1 camera/back in tethered mode. I've worked quite a bit with C1 6.0/6.1 (I just updated to 6.2) and know that while the local adjustments have been added to C1, it's not quite as extensive as ACR 6.4/LR 3.4. C1 is getting there...

If you are using an older version of Photoshop or Lightroom (ACR 5.x or LR 2.x) then I would be inclined to say C1 could produce better results (in terms of demosiacing and detail). In terms of color, you may want to look at creating DNG profiles for you camera and back when you get it.
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ron lacy

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Re: Phase one P20+ images and Photoshop
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2011, 10:13:06 am »

Thanks for all of your input and thoughts.  Seems like it can go both way--LR/ACR and Capture 1 and get good results.  Depends on expectations, and technique.

Thanks again.

Ron
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