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Author Topic: Infrared  (Read 7178 times)

Roberto Frieri

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Infrared
« on: April 17, 2011, 04:37:00 pm »

M8 + Biogon 2.8/25 + BW Infrared filter 092

John R Smith

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2011, 03:49:51 am »

Roberto

I can't decide which version I like best. They are both very well done. Normally, I'm not too keen on infra-red shots, because the style became such a cliche back in the past. But perhaps now we can look at it with a fresh eye.

You certainly have all the elements of technique and style well under control, and your stuff is always presented in a very professional and polished fashion. So far, we have seen a very varied set of work from you, with many different subjects and moods. Which in one way is a good thing, because it means that you can handle a variety of challenges. However, I get the feeling that so far there is no clear artistic vision or message which would make all these pictures hang together, so that one could say - "Of course, that's a Frieri". Mind you, there are not many people who post here who have managed that, but one who definitely has, for example, is Josh Holko. His stuff has such a very recognisable and distinctive style that it does not need a signature.

John
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 03:55:19 am by John R Smith »
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Roberto Frieri

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2011, 05:57:42 am »

Thank you John for your balanced judgement.
Your opinion is always appreciated and valued.
What you say means a lot to me.
I think I need more experience to grow my knowledge.

P.S. Sorry for my poor english.

John R Smith

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2011, 07:04:48 am »

Roberto

Your English is fine. And don't get me wrong, I really like the two pictures.

John
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Roberto Frieri

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2011, 08:16:51 am »

Well, I was referring to your comment , where you say that "there is no clear artistic vision or message which would make all these pictures hang together".
That's right.
Mainly due to having little time (and/or little inspiration!?), I am producing very simple "photographic projects".

John R Smith

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2011, 09:01:48 am »

Roberto

A bit of infra-red work is a pretty nice "photographic project". And as with your two photos here, done well it gives a kind of magical other-worldly look to things. Like you, I have had very little time available to devote to photography in recent years. Back in the 1980s, when I was able to work on it more or less full-time, I think my vision and results were a great deal more focused.

John
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degrub

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2011, 09:40:11 pm »

The boardwalk in both reminds me of the yellow brick road in Oz. The second one , though, seems to have a bit of Kansas in it with the simple railing along the path - a "what is" and a "what might be" tension for a viewer looking from the here and now.

i like the second one better for the lack of symmetry and the visual tension.

Frank
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Roberto Frieri

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2011, 04:47:09 am »

One more...

degrub

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2011, 07:34:55 am »

What was the important part of the image ?

Frank
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Roberto Frieri

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2011, 07:44:39 am »

What was the important part of the image ?
Frank

Well, the infrared effect and the zig-zag pattern of the water...

John R Smith

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2011, 09:50:23 am »

Roberto

This latest one is not half as effective a picture as the first two you posted. The composition is OK, but the infrared effect is not at all obvious and there is little of that magical other-worldly look. The water is quite nice, although I would print it a little lighter, but the enclosing trees are just not terribly interesting and rather tonally uniform. Worst of all, that foreground vegetation looks pretty soft even in the small jpeg, and being light it really draws the viewer's eye to it. If you are going to put something in the foreground of a B/W shot like this, it has to be needle-sharp, and interesting.

So now I've done a real hachet-job on your picture - but it's just because your stuff is usually so good that I want to keep you on the right course  ;)

John
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Roberto Frieri

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2011, 10:42:21 am »

I post my pictures on forums because I need "brutally honest feedback" as a way to improve my photography.
I don't know any one in real life that's experienced enough to know the difference between a good shot and a bad one.
Thus, I thank you again for your constructive critique.

John R Smith

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2011, 03:05:49 pm »

Don't worry, Roberto, the same thing happens to me. Sometimes I post pictures here and they just bomb.

Usually, that's because they really are crap and I just didn't see it. So that's helpful, because I then see the faults and can improve my work for the future. But just now and then, it's because other folks just miss the point and it actually was a good photograph. So you also have to have faith in your own vision, and not be too affected by other people's opinions. After all, there are those who really don't like Ansel's work very much (poor misguided souls). And Russ who posts on here regards all landscape photography as completely pointless (I hope you're not reading this, Russ  ;)). So there are as many shades of opinion as there are posters, which is actually a really good thing.

After all, if we all agreed with each other all the time, how boring life would be . . .

John
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Rob C

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2011, 04:18:58 pm »

Don't worry, Roberto, the same thing happens to me. Sometimes I post pictures here and they just bomb.

Usually, that's because they really are crap and I just didn't see it. So that's helpful, because I then see the faults and can improve my work for the future. But just now and then, it's because other folks just miss the point and it actually was a good photograph. So you also have to have faith in your own vision, and not be too affected by other people's opinions. After all, there are those who really don't like Ansel's work very much (poor misguided souls). And Russ who posts on here regards all landscape photography as completely pointless (I hope you're not reading this, Russ  ;)). So there are as many shades of opinion as there are posters, which is actually a really good thing.

After all, if we all agreed with each other all the time, how boring life would be . . . John



But peaceful... a good reason for playing music the whole time you sit at the keyboard; the right stuff works magic and even the pundits sound more reasoned. I don't believe them, of course, never did, but hey, they pass the time better than watching television. 

As you suggested, and I have ever believed, be thine own judge. In today's world, there's hardly a photographer who hasn't access to the Internet. Pick up on a few agents' sites and your can't live in pictorial voidsville anymore. You don't need advice on specifics, which is only opinion; make up your own mind the simple way: accept what appeals to you as being the truth of what you yourself seek. Hell, it might even be a trip with Dorothy in Kansas.

Rob C

Roberto Frieri

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2011, 09:27:25 am »

... You don't need advice on specifics, which is only opinion; make up your own mind the simple way: accept what appeals to you as being the truth of what you yourself seek...
Rob C

I'm just a self taught photographer, I think I need to get some opinions and suggestions...
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 09:38:06 am by Roberto Frieri »
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Roberto Frieri

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2011, 09:34:58 am »

#4

Roberto Frieri

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2011, 09:37:31 am »

#5

John R Smith

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2011, 03:43:21 am »

Roberto

Nobody seems to be commenting anymore, so I'll have another go. I think everyone's attention has been diverted to Andrea's postings.

These last two pictures do not have the strength of the first frames you posted, at least in my opinion. Although they are infra-red, the effect is not so striking - but this is one of the problems with IR, in that you can't see what is happening until you get home, develop the film (or in your case convert the RAW to B/W), and actually see the result. Which makes the whole thing something of a guessing game. The second problem is an interesting one, and nothing to do with technique as such. The inclusion of a figure in both of them makes the image look like a snapshot or tourist picture, rather than a formal landscape. I think that must be because the figure is not actually posed in an interesting way, and therefore definitely a subject, but on the other hand the inclusion of the woman is not spontaneous and informal either. So this seems awkward and falls between two stools.

The other thing that strikes me, which relates to my first point, is that you actually had the makings of a brilliant picture in the first frame, but you missed it. Look at what is happening on the left-hand side of the frame - the luminous trees and their reflections in the lake. Magical. Black sky, glowing trees, reflections - you should have swung the camera to the left! But of course you could not see what would happen with the IR effect in the viewfinder.

So I still think that the very first two IR pictures that you posted were the best. My test for this is pretty simple - have they stuck in my mind? Can I remember what they looked like without having to open the post? And with the first two frames, the answer to that is yes.

John
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Roberto Frieri

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2011, 04:09:27 am »

#6 + #7 + #8

William Walker

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Re: Infrared
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2011, 04:38:30 am »

Hey Roberto

I am in the same boat as you. I also appreciate and respect feedback from people like John, Russ and others. (I'm still waiting for something from Rob! :)).

The problem I have is in returning the favour - if you can call it that! I do not feel able to give constructive criticism, I either like a picture or I don't - and usually cannot tell you why. I also know from experience that a picture that I have taken and really like, might be for a reason that is not clear to anyone else who looks at it. (I am not sure that one should explain a picture when you submit it - it should be able to explain itself, don't you think?

I have received some comments here that I did not agree with - but it did not stop me from still liking it. (John, I printed "Karoo Clouds", had it framed, have put it up in my lounge and people seem to like it. Perhaps it printed better than it appeared on the monitor. It was also beautifully framed - perhaps that helped!)

So, from now on I will comment on as many submissions as I can using the simple measure of whether I like it or not! I will do my best to explain my reasons but don't expect too much depth in that department! ;D

Roberto, I too like your first two pictures, the second one would be great if it wasn't for the fence in the front right which I find distracting. I am not sure I would print any of the others though.

Of the three you have just posted I really like the last one, even if the foreground is a little "untidy". Perhaps a few meters forward would have taken them out of the picture?

William
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