Schneider 60 5.6

[johnasmith]

oh I failed yo say the 55mm is a f 4.5 and 125mm image circle, this is going to be the lens
for me doing 30x60 3 shot images

[cng]

I just bought the 55mm apo-sironar digital and using it on a p65 and printing on ZBE Chromira and even at f16 a 30x40 print looks super tack sharp,in my opinion looks as good as 8x10 also bob Saliman at HP marking says this lens is good to 6 pixel resolve which is p65s

There is a PDF on the Rodenstock website that states of the Apo-Sironar Digital series: "Resolving power is designed for a pixel pitch down to 9 μm." (see the bottom of the first page of the PDF)

http://www.rodenstock-photo.com/mediabase/original/e_Rodenstock_Digital_Lenses_3-26__8236.pdf

I think that everyone's consensus of the Rodenstock 55mm is a prime example of real-world versus theoretical performance.  Then again, I'd be fascinated to know whether we'll see any noticeable difference between the Rodenstock 55mm and new Schneider 60mm on an 80MP back.

By the way, I am NOT suggesting that Bob Salomon (who is very knowledgeable) is mistaken.  For all I know Rodenstock could have improved production of the 55mm in some way to squeeze more performance out of the lens.  A personal frustration is that Schneider and Rodenstock don't seem to be consistent with the descriptions and marketing of their lenses; e.g. restating their performance upwards over time but also inconsistently updating their literature.

[johnasmith]

Bob Salomon also told me that all of the lens in the Apo-Sironar Digital line 35mm,45mm,55mm,105mm,135mm,150mm,180mm are
the same optical design as the w series lens.he also said that when the current stock ran out all of the above listed lens would
be listed w series lens this as he told me some months ago.

[JdeV]

Linhof studio have confirmed that the 60mm is optimised for the newr 60 and 80 mp backs, which in practice will have better resolving power than the 55mm which is designed for larger pixel pitches.

Please take a look at the MTF diagrams. I can't see the evidence for this claim at all.

Would love to be proved wrong.

[JdeV]

Bob Salomon also told me that all of the lens in the Apo-Sironar Digital line 35mm,45mm,55mm,105mm,135mm,150mm,180mm are
the same optical design as the w series lens.he also said that when the current stock ran out all of the above listed lens would
be listed w series lens this as he told me some months ago.

As I understand it, the W series lenses are complex, generally retro-focus designs with up to 14 elements. The Digital Apo-Sironar lenses are simpler near-symmetrical derivations of the non-digital Apo-Sironars. It would be very misleading if the Apo-Sironar Digitals as a whole were renamed in this way and it seems unlikely.

On the other hand, two of the Apo-Sironars, the 70mm and the 90mm were so renamed, apparently because they met the higher resolution criteria of the W line.

[cng]

As I understand it, the W series lenses are complex, generally retro-focus designs with up to 14 elements. The Digital Apo-Sironar lenses are simpler near-symmetrical derivations of the non-digital Apo-Sironars. It would be very misleading if the Apo-Sironar Digitals as a whole were renamed in this way and it seems unlikely.

On the other hand, two of the Apo-Sironars, the 70mm and the 90mm were so renamed, apparently because they met the higher resolution criteria of the W line.

+1.  The Rodenstock PDF also confirms this (see the description of the HR-W series).

I had a good look at the MTF charts for the Schneider 60mm Apo-Digitar and Rodenstock 35mm Apo-Sironar and couldn't reach a conclusion.  Admittedly, I'm not great at reading MTF charts so I'm just going to kick back and wait for my new 60mm to arrive.

[artpanda]

Could we compare the MTF of 60mm to ALPA AAA Apo Alpar 4.5/55 mm?
http://www.alpa.ch/en/products/lenses/exclusive-alpa-lenses/alpa-aaa-apo-alpar-4_5-55-mm.html
At 40 LP/mm the new 60mm seems to be sharper in the center.

[JdeV]

Yes, that's useful. A bit more precise than my educated guesswork.

Looks like you get a bit more sharpness in the centre (around 5%) with roughly matching edges.

[archivue]

i have 45, 55, 90, 120M, 135, 180 rodenstock digital lenses.

the 55 and the 90 are the best of the bunch... but the best quality is about F11

i suspect the new 60 to be better than the 55 at F5,6... but if you want to stitch and use the lense at F11-16... the 55 is a really good value for money !

it covers a 4x5 !... i've done it !

[cng]

Could we compare the MTF of 60mm to ALPA AAA Apo Alpar 4.5/55 mm?
http://www.alpa.ch/en/products/lenses/exclusive-alpa-lenses/alpa-aaa-apo-alpar-4_5-55-mm.html
At 40 LP/mm the new 60mm seems to be sharper in the center.

Of course! Don't know why I didn't think of this.  Thanks.

I have to agree with you and JdeV.  Looks like 5.0% (maybe even up to 7.5%) improvement in the centre for 40lp/mm at f/11 and f/8.  The outer edges look comparable.  However, depending on where you read the edge of the IC for the Rodenstock curves, the Rodenstock edges could be marginally better.

Despite what I said earlier, now I'm curious to see the distortion and falloff charts for the Schneider.

i suspect the new 60 to be better than the 55 at F5,6... but if you want to stitch and use the lense at F11-16... the 55 is a really good value for money

IIRC Schneider claims the new 60mm is fully useable at f/5.6 (but of course with smaller IC and no movements).  But IMO you'd have to be very selective when shooting this lens wide open since it appears that peak resolution drops off drastically from the centre at f/5.6.

The Rodenstock looks like very good value indeed.

[buckshot]

Beautiful lens by the way - huuuuge image circle.