magenta spyders & pink elephants

[lowep]

Have you ever got a monitor profile with a magenta cast from a colorvision sypder??

I have a "vintage" Pantone Colorvision ColorPlus spyder that worked splendidly on my XP desktop with Dell CRT monitor until I upgraded my computer to Win7. Now I am trying to reinstall and recalibrate my monitor with the same old Spyder and updated Spyder2express 2.3.6. software that I have downloaded this morning from the internet after reading that the sensor in the old version of the Spyder is compatible with this software.

Everything installed ok but after performing the calibration with Spyder2express and the colorplus Spyder all the images I viewed on the monitor had a distinctive magenta tint that was not there when I viewed the same images on the former XP version of my system that was calibrated with the original ColorPLus monitor calibration software.

To troubleshoot I have so far done the following:

1) Waited 1 hour with the sypder plugged in to see if the problem was that I had not given it enough time to warm up - but ended up with same magenta tint

2) Downloaded and installed Spyder2express for Mac on my macbook and performed the calibration with the colorplus spyder - same awful magenta cast

3) Installed the original version of the software in the "Virtual XP" environment of my Win7 computer. The software installed with no problem but could not find the spyder when I plugged it in after installing the program and rebooting the computer.

4) By opening the startup file on the orginal software CD I managed to install the software in Win7 but it could not find the spyder either.

Yes, I know this is an old system but I am also old and still able to function so this of itself is not sufficient reason to junk the system I have yet. As I have been able to install the updated spyder2 software and have it recognize the sensor my guess is that the problem may be I am the one who is doing something wrong or there is some other variable that is influencing the outcome.

As for the pink elephants that is the color they come out on my monitor because of the magenta cast - not because I have been drinking :-)

Any suggestion or advice most welcome?

[lowep]

perhaps the problem is ambient light, since 2 different monitors in the same room produce the same magenta color cast?

will try to recalibrate in dark tonight to see if that makes any difference 

[Tim Lookingbill]

Update your video driver.

Don't build ICC v4 display profile if there is a preference setting for doing that in the software. Select v2.

Ambient light has nothing to do with influencing how the software and hardware operate. Ambient reading is just what it is, a reading which you can tell the software to match to or you can do it visually by adjusting color temp sliders if that's available in your software.

If none of these suggestions work, then force the pink cast out of the calibration by manually adjusting the color temp sliders in the software if that's available.

It is available in X-rite's i1Match software even on the original i1Display package which is what I use.

[Lisa Nikodym]

A strong magenta cast (specifically magenta, not another color) usually means that you're double-profiling, i.e. your color management settings are such that you're applying color management *twice* instead of once, usually in both in your photo-editing software (such as Photoshop) and in your printer driver.  Usually it's because people who are having Photoshop handle the color management have forgotten to turn off printer color management.

Double-check your settings.  Some of the following links may be useful, though they are a few years old:
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps10_print/ps10_print_1.htm
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/und-print-mgmt.shtml
(In the latter, especially see the paragraph under Figure 1 about two thirds of the way through.)

Lisa

[Tim Lookingbill]

Lisa,

This is about the OP's display and has nothing to do with printers.

[lowep]

Thanks for the input.

just before trying to calibrate the monitor I updated the graphic card driver and the monitor driver so that is unlikely to be the problem.

so far I have not reinstalled photoshop on this computer so that is not likely to be the problem either.

after reading your suggestions I dove into advanced color management where I made sure the spyder profile was set as "default" and cleared the checkbox "use windows display calibration" as figured this may be causing the double profiling lisa mentions -- this seems to have helped insofar as now when I boot up the computer it auto loads the spyder profile and now I no longer see the same very strong magenta cast.

one thing I am not sure about is how to set the "viewing conditions profile" in advanced color management? System default is "WCS profile for sRGB viewing conditions" and I figure maybe I am better off with "WCS profile for ICC viewing conditions" for adjusting photos but maybe I am wrong about this too?

 

[Tim Lookingbill]

So this is a Windows 7 color management system causing conflict with the Spyder 3 profile loading.

Hopefully someone with experience with this OS will chime in on how to turn all OS implemented CM off.

Wow! I remember I had bookmarked this...

http://www.pusztaiphoto.com/articles/colormgmt/win7/default.aspx

This may offer some solutions.

[lowep]

Thanks for the pointer to this very useful but for me slightly confusing article. It was good to encounter a clear explanation of the problem (makes me feel I may not be totally insane after all) and I was also happy to find the road map to what Laszlo calls “the windows 7 solution” that I followed after using the spyder and spyder2 software to make a display profile.
 
The critical new information he gave me in his article was “LUT loading is controlled by the Use Windows display calibration checkbox” so it should be checked, not unchecked while “calibrate display” should be ignored as it just throws in what he calls “eye-o-meter” data, right?
 
Following his instructions I went into color management “system defaults” – “advanced” then changed the “device profile from the Win7-selected SRGB profile to MY profile (Spyder2Express) before checking “use window display calibration” as Laszlo had suggested to do - since I (mistakenly?) thought that otherwise the Win7 SRGB-something-or-other profile would have stayed in the windows color system defaults device profile box as the system default then conflict with the profile I had created.
 
So far so good -- I thought!!

Yet when I closed everything down and rebooted the computer I was surprised not to see the usual notification that the “spyder2express profile has been successfully loaded into the video card” that perhaps is no longer required if Win7 automatically loads my display profile as the system default?

Meanwhile when I look at the monitor I am still not quite confident that the display is calibrated right so am still not sure if I have got this right or not
 
So not bored ☺ and learning why people wiser than myself have said a little knowledge can be dangerous

[Tim Lookingbill]

So not bored ☺ and learning why people wiser than myself have said a little knowledge can be dangerous

And I'll add a Mac guy (myself) shouldn't be giving advice to a Win7 user especially troubleshooting display calibration issues.

Sorry for adding even more confusion. I shouldn't have provided that link. It was an afterthought hoping to weed out the cause of the issue.

The only thing left is to call Spyder3 support. Hope you can put everything back the way it was before you read that article.

[lowep]

So this is a Windows 7 color management system causing conflict with the Spyder 3 profile loading.

This suggestion and the pointer to the article were very helpful and exactly why I value forums like this one. After all do you think any company has genuine interest in advising rednecks like me how to couple up a piece of legacy software with a legacy sensor to solve a problem that could probably be easier fixed by just forking out for a new one every time Microsoft introduces a new operating system?

What is most interesting to me in all this is that there seems to be a conflict that I had never thought about before between production of desktop computers for the mainstream market and the specialty requirements of specific users in this case photographers who want to do their own calibration rather than rely on default settings. I am very surprised to learn how complicated it is to do this though perhaps should not be.

Perhaps this is why some photographers prefer macs?

Whatever else comes out of this at least I think that as a result of all the messing around I did I somehow got rid of that magenta cast unless my eyes are playing tricks on me this morning. I guess the only way to be sure about this is to do some printing and compare the results with my monitor even though that introduces more variables..  

[lowep]

For anyone who wants to know here are the answers I have now found to the questions that prompted me to start this thread:

Here is the relevant Microsoft page about how to turn off Win7 color management (and everything else you need to know about Win7 color management)

Here in Datacolor's knowledgebase is confirmation that the original Colorplus spyder is compatible with Spyder2express software

[lowep]

Yesterday I wrote this: "After all do you think any company has genuine interest in advising rednecks like me how to couple up a piece of legacy software with a legacy sensor to solve a problem that could probably be easier fixed by just forking out for a new one every time Microsoft introduces a new operating system?

This morning I found in my email inbox this splendid reply to the query I sent to Datacolor support:

Dear Peter,
 
thank you for submitting a ticket and thank you for purchasing Datacolor products.
 
Please note that the latest software version will work with Windows7 but that this is not officially supported. We won't offer further updates for Spyder2express software. Thank you for understanding.
 
Please note that Spyder2 sensors are physically not able to read LED backlight color because of its different spectrum of light. If you need to calibrate a monitor display with LED backlight technology please upgrade to the current 3rd generation of Spyder sensors: Spyder3Express, Spyder3Pro or Spyder3Elite.
 
Please try to use our product finder. It will help you to find the device you need:
 
http://www.datacolor.eu/en/products/product-finder/index.html
 
You can reach our online shop here:  www.datacolor.eu
In the end of the process you can type in a rebate code. We offer you a 20% off rebate.
This is your code: LOYALSPYDER
 
Thank you and best regards,

So looks like time for me to happily eat my hat!

[stefohl]

Have you tested with another calibrator? When we tested calibrators we noticed that quite a few of the colorimeters that were older that two-three years had a problem. One or two of the filters might have faded, causing your problem.

[lowep]

thanks for this good suggestion that I had not considered however in my particular case i am calculating that whatever effect is being caused by the aging of the old sypder is hopefully being counterbalanced by the effect caused by the aging of my old CRT monitor  

[stefohl]

thanks for this good suggestion that I had not considered however in my particular case i am calculating that whatever effect is being caused by the aging of the old sypder is hopefully being counterbalanced by the effect caused by the aging of my old CRT monitor  

I think you would have been extremely lucky if the fading of your calibrator is matching the fading of your monitor. When we tested calibrators and compared them to an extremely accurate calibrator we saw that more than 40% of the older colorimeters gave results that was way off.

[Tim Lookingbill]

Hope this is the solution, Peter.

Good to know that colorimeters age with time.

Just googled Spyder3Express and Pro and both are under $200. I might have to look into getting a new calibrator since I've been using the original i1Display going on over 3 years. Wonder what the visual signs are of an aging colorimeter.

I can't see any difference on my 7 year old G5 iMac, but then I don't have anything to compare it to.

[lowep]

I guess if a print is made from the file you adjust on your computer and it looks like you want it to look then everything is ok 

[ChasP505]

Just my two cents (USD)...

I also used to use the old ColorVision Spyder on a CRT with good success.  Later I used a Spyder2 Pro kit with a Dell PVA paneled monitor and it worked fine.  Currently I use a puck from a Spyder3 Express kit ($80 USD) with ColorEyes Display Pro software.  It works great.  If you use a monitor that doesn't offer a proprietary display calibration system, this would be my best recommendation for a monitor calibration solution.

[stefohl]

After the tests that we did (more than 30 calibrators were tested, including EyeOne Displays, Spyders of different generations, DTP-94:s, ColorMunkis and EyeOne Pros) I would recommend a ColorMunki. The design of the Munki is a disaster, but the calibrator inside the case is doing a good job.

Stefan