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Author Topic: GH2 cine editing on a Mac  (Read 7635 times)

David S

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GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« on: March 23, 2011, 04:37:58 pm »

Using a Mac Pro and currently using iMovie for editing GH2 film clips. This is for personal use only at present.

If I move up what program would people suggest. Both Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Studio look interesting and seem to have their uses and advantages and a fairly steep learning curve. (Also quite a bit of money)

Output to DVD and no Blu Ray at present but planned in the future.

Any suggestions or places to go and read more.

Thanks

Dave

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Christopher Sanderson

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 05:00:29 pm »

Stick with iMovie if you can for a few more weeks. There is about to be a massive re-invention of Final Cut Pro and I assume the 'Express' version. This new version sounds so radical that we will probably all have to re-learn the program. If you can't wait, I'd get FC Express and hope ( ??? ) that Apple is good to new buyers when the upg. comes out - but I rather doubt it.


the DVXUser forum is one of the best places to glean information

David S

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 05:06:52 pm »

Thanks for the forum info and I can and will wait the new incarnation of Final Cut.

Dave
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bcooter

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2011, 03:02:32 pm »

a massive re-invention of Final Cut Pro and I assume the 'Express' version. This new version sounds so radical that we will probably all have to re-learn the program.

Apple lives in their own world and not knowing anything about the new FCP, everything we talk about is just a guess.

I know I'd be tickled pink if they'd just leave the current version alone (so there is no new added learning curve) and just offer or partner with third party companies to lay of the rendering and effects to either PCI cards or stand along devices.

I know they did this with Matrox for about an hour once, but apple ended the deal as fast as they made it and went back to where the processor's do all the heavy lifting.  The problem is with FCP we all just wait and render, wait and render.

Video/motion whatever you want to call it is a time suck, the black hole of post production.   You walk into a room to cut a simple piece, blink twice and two weeks have gone by.

We also desperately need standards.   If I kept up on every new motion capable camera, every new codec, every editorial system that required a native codec file I'd never get any work done, I'd just spend all of my time reading.

Call 10 editorial houses and ask them how they handle footage, or what footage format they'd like delivered and you will get 10 very different answers.  Most of them just say they make it up as they go along.

The only standards, (past film) are if you are working a long project with a closed loop system.  One where photography, techs, editorial, effects and final conforming functions are all on the same page.

Imagine in the still world if your client asked you to deliver a file that worked only in a Sony computer, but maybe convert it to an Apple computer (intel only) but the retoucher worked in a file format that would only work with a Non Intel mac.

That's just a very small example of what motion/video faces today.

Anyway, I'm getting off of subject, but today, if you were going to buy a simple plug in package or two just to modify color and ran FCP studio, would you do it?  Will it work with the next FCP?  Would you just throw up your hands and go to AVID or Premier?

Will those two systems be affected by a new FCP or if Apple drops quicktime?

As far as cameras, there is also no standard.   You see episodic TV shoot with a RED as primary camera, A,B and C cameras 5d, 7d's a little film footage thrown it and for slowmo a Phantom.

That's a post production nightmare and for still photographers moving to motion, the only real answer is find a camera that fits your workflow and style and stick with it, worrying about the post production later, because as we know post production is going to change by the month.

I can see the advantages of the new Panasonic because there is less moire than the Canon/Nikon Dslrs.  I can't understand why Sony has al almost there system raning in price from $3,000 to $100,000 but I can't blame any camera maker because there is no single official standards body that says hold it, these are the standards so stick with them.

There is a reason that large budget cinema is being pulled into the digital camera world kicking and screaming. 

IMO

BC
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fredjeang

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2011, 03:24:54 pm »

The problem of FCP is exactly the one you describe: render render and render. Their recent "partnership" with Autodesk and their powerfull Smoke indicates that IMO Apple will bring an evolution on par with the competitors at one time or another. (more exactly, the fact that Autodesk made Smoke available for FCP indicates that their target is using FCP and I imagine they might be confident on the evolution of the Apple software). It still is pretty much a standart NLE.

After months of practising on different platforms I finaly stay with Avid Media Composer 5, if I just had one software to choose between all. At first I was kind of intimidated and perplex but then Avid is a bloody peice of software and you can tell in use of their long experience background in edition. (takes also R3D natives files)

The mess is incredible indeed. I spent hours and hours with the procoder and co to get the files the technical sheet where asking for (6 or 7 versions in different formats for different applications). Although the sheet are very precise in that aspect, in practical terms it is nothing less than a nightmare.

Also, I had to edit from different cameras with different WB and resolution and if not RAW this is just not fun. In fact an engineer task that costs fortune when done properly, certainly not a task for the photographer-videographer. But producers ask miracles in low budget stuff and everybody is tense and getting crazy.

We need standarts, now!


Edit: About this GH2, it seems from many sources that the camera is really a great tool as video is concerned. I won't object that because I don't own this camera and of the trustable experience of the people I read reports on it. But something does not end to convince me. How Panasonic has managed to do that in such a small body? I know, I should applaude for lightweight but in my experience lightweight and very reduced sizes aren't specially qualities in the harsh conditions of pro daily use. In other words, what's the price to pay for this excelence in such a reduced body?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2011, 06:57:57 pm by fredjeang »
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tho_mas

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 07:07:03 pm »

Quote
Edit: About this GH2, it seems from many sources that the camera is really a great tool as video is concerned. I won't object that because I don't own this camera and of the trustable experience of the people I read reports on it. But something does not end to convince me. How Panasonic has managed to do that in such a small body? I know, I should applaude for lightweight but in my experience lightweight and very reduced sizes aren't specially qualities in the harsh conditions of pro daily use. In other words, what's the price to pay for this excelence in such a reduced body?
we just shot a short image film (including pieces of reportage style work like red carpet, catwalk with showlight etc.) with two GH2's and one 7D. The GH2 handles so much better. Focus control on the LCD (even on the EVF) of the GH2 is much, much more reliable. You can dipslay highlight warning while recording. I shot my 2 GH2's at ISO320 and ISO640 while the D7 was shot at ISO800 and ISO1200. IQ from the GH2 is remarkably better.
We shot from monopods (video only) so that we could move very, very fast (looks as if we had 8 cameras...). For this particular application the small body of the GH2 is very welcomed; operation is easy and intuitive. A lens like the Nokton f0.95 is great to work with ... follow focus / focus shift wide open is really doable... even when working with monopods.
The GH2 really does not leave much to be desired (at least for shooting video only. Sound is a different story, but it is with all DSLR-style cameras).
The mentioned "price to pay" is the camera is almost unusable for shooting photos (at least for me)... though for snapshots it's probably okay. Of course you also have to buy a lot of batterys as you can power the camera only with Pansonics proprietary batterys. But I think this also applys to all other DSLR Style cameras ...?
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bcooter

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2011, 10:31:21 am »

Been using a GH2 for several of my recent projects and couldn't be happier with the footage. Sure there isn't the creaminess, shallow look and feel that the 5DII and 7D have given me, but the GH2 is just easy to work with, any lens made can be adapted, so really no need for new lens investment, and I do find color correcting and grading to be better on the GH2 footage, at least for my workflow. The body may not be pro quality, but buy 3 for the same price as a 5DII and go to work.

No color moire and virtually no aliasing alleviates a lot of frustration in post.

Canon has to make considerable video image quality improvements in the 5DIII otherwise I may not have any interest. I don't need more megapixels for stills, none of my clients would care.

The Panasonic shoots nice video and the size of the camera allows for some pretty cool placement, like gaffer taping it in the corner of an elevator, or placing it in low tight areas.

The menu system is just maddening, at least for me and I never find the settings intuitive.

What is really needed on all the lower costs cameras is less lcd menu controls, a more intuitive analog approach and obviously raw footage.

I can set exposure, color, f stop, shutter, tint, contrast on the RED in 1/10th of the time of any other motion camera I've worked.  Granted turning a RED on and off does take a week, but as far as making a setting, it's easy.

Working the RED vs. the Canons is just a world of difference when it comes to even color correcting a simple image.

When working with practicals like a street scene, the raw file of the RED is a lifesaver.

Still for the money the Panasonic does work.

I continue to believe with video (and in a way stills) we are not there yet.

For fast paced projects we need some form of touch screen focus where you mark out the subject, the software recognizes that face or person and follow focuses them through the shot.

I also believe we need square sensors.  I know it sound crazy to offer a square in video, but as we converge from motion to stills, as the web and hand held viewer devices take on different forms vertical stills we become more than a novelty, they will become a must have request.

With vertical you can usually see more subject, in retail and advertising imagery more product and most still stages and sets are really not suited for 16x9 formats, at least not with any panning or movement.

IMO

BC
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fredjeang

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2011, 11:12:01 am »

Been using a GH2 for several of my recent projects and couldn't be happier with the footage. Sure there isn't the creaminess, shallow look and feel that the 5DII and 7D have given me, but the GH2 is just easy to work with, any lens made can be adapted, so really no need for new lens investment, and I do find color correcting and grading to be better on the GH2 footage, at least for my workflow. The body may not be pro quality, but buy 3 for the same price as a 5DII and go to work.

No color moire and virtually no aliasing alleviates a lot of frustration in post.

Canon has to make considerable video image quality improvements in the 5DIII otherwise I may not have any interest. I don't need more megapixels for stills, none of my clients would care.
Do you mean that we can mount Canon's FF via adapter?

When you say lack of moire, wich is a great accomplishment: my lastest footages with the Canons and Pentaxes had bad moire; is that true with M4/3 lenses only or with any glass you can mount on this camera?

In terms of operation, aren't those little buttons a nightmare? Honestly. Something I really hate is having to be carefull where I put my fingers on in operation. Don't have specially big hands but over-miniaturized devices really drive me crazy. One of the first thing I want a camera to be is that it does not make you feel it's there.

Still guys, I'm ready to beleive you all about that Pana and maybe I should because the consensus seems to be unanimous, and if top photographers who have written here with the demanding imagery they are producing, don't consider the GH2 a toy but a workable tool, the beast should be worth indeed for motion, just that I can't figure out how the brand managed to beat the 5D2 (wich is already not that big) in such a reduced format. That really amazes me.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 11:46:11 am by fredjeang »
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tho_mas

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2011, 06:48:17 pm »

I (...) use the Smooth film look in 24p so the blacks aren't crushed out of camera and can be worked later.
me too. "Cinema" introduces an unnatural looking compression in highlights (flat) and blacks are crushed. "Smooth" (with settings -2|-1|-2|-2) delivers by far the best footage for further postwork in a 10bit codec (ProRes or 10b MFX or so...).
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fredjeang

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2011, 03:58:25 am »

Thank you guys.
Good shooting.
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Dick Roadnight

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2011, 03:25:48 pm »

...and is Premier pro 5.5 a good choice for editing? ... I can get it for £380.40 by upgrading to Adobe Creative suite Production Premium 5.5.
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fredjeang

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2011, 12:05:30 pm »

...and is Premier pro 5.5 a good choice for editing? ... I can get it for £380.40 by upgrading to Adobe Creative suite Production Premium 5.5.
It is, no doubt.
I think that most NLE editors are similar in their basic arquitecture. I "come from" Premiere pro and this is a good and powerfull software and combined with After effects gives you a serious editing tool.

I personally find that Avid suits more what I'm looking for but I won't deny Premiere by no means. In other words, maybe not the best (and that's all relative to your mid-term aims, needs and personal workflow style) but a very good choice. You can't go wrong with it.
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Dick Roadnight

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Re: GH2 cine editing on a Mac
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2011, 12:27:30 pm »

It is, no doubt.
I think that most NLE editors are similar in their basic arquitecture. I "come from" Premiere pro and this is a good and powerfull software and combined with After effects gives you a serious editing tool.

I personally find that Avid suits more what I'm looking for but I won't deny Premiere by no means. In other words, maybe not the best (and that's all relative to your mid-term aims, needs and personal workflow style) but a very good choice. You can't go wrong with it.
Thank you Fred - yes it seems logical to stick with the Adobe suite... which I can use for still to video (panning ) and web authoring.... it cost an arm and a leg, so it will be nice to get some use out of it.
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