HP 24" Drive Belt Replacement Video

[kaelaria]

That means something is obstructing the movement.  Most likely you didn't reassemble things correctly, or something got moved when you tried cleaning it.  You'll just have to open it up and go over everything.  You should have no errors when powering up.

[walter.sk]

Well, at least I know how to get the stuff apart now.  I may have been to vigorous in trying to clean the service station.  On the other hand, I hope it had nothing to do with that shaft that I pulled out.  Well, tomorrow will be a fascinating day!

[walter.sk]

Well, I took it apart again and redid everything including taking out that shaft.  I also played with the service station to see if anything that I could see looked out of place because of my enthusiastic cleaning.  I put the printer back together (I'm getting faster with this!) and still got the Error 21:13, and in scrolling down on the front LED, in some of the cryptic terms I found "jam" mentioned.

There is also a black plastic cover that emerges and sits over the sponges.  It was only partially visible, but thickly coated with black ink.  When I turned the printer on again, it extended fully to cover the sponges, and while the printer tried to initialize, the service station (or part of it) moved toward the back of the printer and back, but the sponges never got exposed, and the Error 21:13 popped up again.

Wanna buy a fixer-upper, cheap?

The saddest thing is that I used the printer to make between 4 and 10 prints a week, if that. and it was certainly not from heavy use that the belt self destructed.  And with so many of the LuLa people reporting crumbled belts, all at about 3 years of use, whether heavy or light, it seems to me that something is amiss.

The printer seems built to be a workhorse, and I don't think HP purposely put a belt in that is 1) so likely to die early, and 2) requires such amount of work to replace if they knew it would go in 3 years.  I think either they got a belt made of materials not meant for the stresses, or their printer design leaves something to be desired.

I tried fixing it myself because I could not see spending the $1000 - $1200 that people report being charged to do the job, and if it were a car instead of a printer I would hope the company would do the repairs as part of a recall, or at least an acknowledgment that the part or design was faulty.

In all seriousness, I'm stymied at this point.  I don't really know what to do.

[Colorwave]

I'm sure that HP would argue that the belt replacement is not unlike the timing belt of your car, and that it should be replaced on your nickel at 100,000 miles.  Unfortunately, this timing belt requires pulling the engine and transmission, instead of just removing the timing belt cover.

For the service station, the sponges are exposed at the beginning of the initialization process, then they retract to the back and the black hinged lid comes out.  Does the lid still depress in the front and not bind (it hinges at the rear)?  I'm not sure how one would confirm the proper working of other parts of the service station, as they are all servo operated.

[kaelaria]

I'm sorry you are having difficulty but please don't try and blame HP for your lack of service skill.  If you are near Tampa I'll gladly come over and fix it for you.

To better clean the cover surface, turn it on and start a printhead replacement sequence, and turn it off while it's moved over.  Then take off the right side and you'll see everything better.

[walter.sk]

I'm sorry you are having difficulty but please don't try and blame HP for your lack of service skill.  If you are near Tampa I'll gladly come over and fix it for you.

To better clean the cover surface, turn it on and start a printhead replacement sequence, and turn it off while it's moved over.  Then take off the right side and you'll see everything better.

I'm not blaming HP for my lack of skill--I take full responsibility for that.  I'm not flaming HP either.  I just think that the belt seems to have had an unanticipated number of early failures.  I'd take you up on the offer to fix my printer, but NYC is not really that close to Tampa. 

I am going to talk to the guy that services my friend's printers for her business and see if he thinks the shaft that I removed and replaced might have something to do with the malfunctioning service center unit, and if there are any things I need to know to fix it. 

Another option would be to remove the service station, do a good cleaning of everything in and around it, and see if there is anything making it bind.  And finally, I might bite the bullet and call in the pros and pay the price.

I wish I could do a printhead replace sequence...I used to do that to clean the plastic top on the service station.  The problem is that the printer can't get that far in the boot-up process, and stops with the Error 21:13 service station problem.

[walter.sk]

Well, I really did myself in.  I called a local printer service that does HP Z's.  As soon as he found out that I had worked on the printer myself he stated that he would not come to look at it or try to fix it, and that that is policy among HP people.

By the way, in messing with the printer I discovered what the T-10 screw accessible through the circuit board on the back of the right side does.  I had thought it locked the carriage assembly in position over the service station by moving some sort of set screw.  It actually slides the assembly with the sponges on the inside of the service station toward the front or back of the printer until the carriage assembly is either blocked or clear of tabs on the movable part of the service station.

When I turn the printer on, I watch the carriage assembly move to the left, and the inner assembly of the service station moves front and back, then seems to get stuck.  That results in the service station error, 21:13.  To my mind, there are the following 4 possibilities leading to my problem.

1)  When in great stupidity I removed the left side plate replete with the cam-shaped shaft that came with it, something that functions with the service station got thrown off.  Has anybody here had enough experience with the printer guts to venture a guess?  So far it seems as if that shaft simply raises and lowers the pinch roller assemblies when the media release lever is raised or lowered, and that it does not have anything to do with the service station.

2)  When I cleaned ink off the service station sponges and plastic parts, I moved something out of line.

3)  Neither 1) nor 2) caused the problem, and the service station just decided to go belly up coincidentally.  Possible, but probably not very likely, I guess.

If there is somebody from HP hanging out here, I would really like a description of what the shaft that came out with the left side plate does, and if anything needs to be reconnected with it after it slides back through its several brackets when the side plate is reinstalled.

My options are:

1) Try to find a repair person who knows the Z3100 who is willing to give it a try, even if he/she is not from HP.

2) Order a replacement for the service station and reinstall it.  (It is easy to get to and remove.)

3) Junk the printer, or try to sell it as a "handyman's special."

I am going to start a separate thread specifically asking about the shaft that I removed.

[kaelaria]

I wish I was close, I'm sure I could fix it

[walter.sk]

I wish I was close, I'm sure I could fix it

I appreciate that.  I'm going to look around for some independent repair person who is familiar with the Z's who would be willing to work with it.  I also found a website that sells HP parts that lists a service manual, shown in a looseleaf-like binding for $350, and I wonder if it would have more detail as well as reference to the part that I removed.  I can't believe it is neither referred to nor even mentioned in the manual that we have.

To make matters even worse, the local HP guy I spoke to said he would have replaced the belt for $500, which I would have been glad to pay.  And yes, he said the belt has been a major problem.

[Colorwave]

I just picked up a used 24" Z3100 to go with my 44" version.  The 24" was barely used by the previous owner, and still has most of the half size starter ink carts in it, but nevertheless, the belt is in need of replacing. 

I'm debating between buying a OEM belt or one of the aftermarket ones.  I have found genuine HP belts for about $40, which is $10 cheaper than the LPS belt (which claims to be polyurethane and Kevlar) or another brand (that claims to be polyurethane and Vectra). 

Normally, I would think that the HP belt would be the obvious choice, but I'm not sure this time, given their track record.  Does the replacement belt seem appreciably different/better to those of you who have bought one and seen both? 

I had my belt replaced on service contract for the 44", so I've only see OEM belts.

Thanks,
Ron

[walter.sk]

There is no way for me to tell with the LPS belt how long it will last.  However, I do know that my OEM belt started to self destruct long before 3 years of very light use.  I would find the occasional black speck on a print and thought it was dried ink.  This kept increasing over many months. When I finally opened the printer up, there were scads of fibers and blobs from the belt.   Unless HP has redesigned the belt, I would (and did) go with a 3rd party belt. (Unfortunately I still have no printer.)

I wonder if the people with the Z3200 have any better use of the belts>

[Colorwave]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting a track record of service life already, but wondering if, from appearance, one seemed more robust.  The LPS website mentions theirs being polyurethane and cheap imports being neoprene.  From the look of it, my HP belts aren't very sheeny and look like high density neoprene vs. polyurethane, that usually is more shiny and waxy.  I don't think HP actually states the exact material, though.  If the new belts seem less porous and more of a shiny rubber, I'd be more inclined to try on in lieu of an OEM belt.
Thanks,
Ron
PS:  Crossing my fingers for you, Walter.  I would bet you are at wit's end with your printer situation.

[kaelaria]

There is a stark difference in my old HP belt and the new LPS - however I don't know how much of that has to do with age and wear, I do not have a new HP belt to compare - and I do not suggest doing business with LPS.

[Roscolo]

The saddest thing is that I used the printer to make between 4 and 10 prints a week, if that. and it was certainly not from heavy use that the belt self destructed.  And with so many of the LuLa people reporting crumbled belts, all at about 3 years of use, whether heavy or light, it seems to me that something is amiss.

The printer seems built to be a workhorse, and I don't think HP purposely put a belt in that is 1) so likely to die early, and 2) requires such amount of work to replace if they knew it would go in 3 years.  I think either they got a belt made of materials not meant for the stresses, or their printer design leaves something to be desired.

That's why I'm holding off on replacing mine for as long as possible. Maybe HP will realize they need to make a decent belt. This isn't analogous to a timing belt in car at all. Timing belt replacement at 100,000 miles on a car. So if I don't drive my car much I can go 10-20 years without a timing belt change. As your case illustrates, apparently folks who barely use their printers are having belt deterioration regardless of use or "mileage." And it's hard to believe that HP made a printer belt more difficult to change than a timing belt on a car, but they appear to have accomplished that feat.

That said, it's a great printer, but clearly the belt materials aren't up to snuff and if this is a part that needs regular replacement, one shouldn't have to take the entire printer apart to replace it. Can you imagine if you had to disassemble your car to replace a belt? Or your dryer? So, there is room for improvement. Hopefully this will be addressed by HP at some point. As much as I like my z3100, I could not exclusively recommend the z printers due to the belt problems / defects that all users appear to be having. I would advise a new buyer to give the Canon's a serious look and see if they are having to replace belts on those printers regardless of use and weigh that info. into their decision.

Man, I hope the replacement belts aren't as crappy as the original belts. Time will tell.

[kaelaria]

You guys all seem to miss the point the the belt (and many other parts) have a fixed scheduled replacement detailed in the manual.  I don't see the point bitching about it whatsoever.  Moving parts wear out.  Can it be improved?  Sure.  Is it faulty?  Not IMO.  This also isn't a typical consumer product, I don't see putting any kind of 'blame' on HP for the design requiring somewhat extensive procedures for certain part replacements.  What do you expect, every part to be like changing an ink cartridge?  I really don't follow some of the logic here whatsoever.

Whats next you want to complain that Canon puts out defective cameras because a shutter fails at 90k actuations and requires it to be torn down for you to replace it?  Seriously people.

[Roscolo]

Moving parts wear out.

Whats next you want to complain that Canon puts out defective cameras because a shutter fails at 90k actuations and requires it to be torn down for you to replace it?

If the shutter failed at 3 years after only, say 5k or 10k or 20k actuations, yes, I would see cause for complaint.

I think we all understand moving parts wear out. What is bizarre with the z3100 / z3200 printer belts is that apparently even people who don't use their printer much are experiencing belt failure at the same rate as heavy users. So apparently even unmoving belts wear out and I think that is why the quality of the manufacture of the belt, materials, etc. is certainly questionable and the questions are legitimate. I'm curious how a non-HP belt performs, and as time goes on I guess we will see.

Thanks for posting the video, BTW. Please don't take it down as I'm sure I will be needing it!

[kaelaria]

It's easy to say 'oh I barely used it' - but without the printout showing the actual actuations - I don't put any faith in anyone saying it just 'wore out from sitting'. 

I've only made a couple prints since the change, here's my current print out - let's see everyone else's so we can gather actual data and not go off guesses and BS.

My belt went around 44k actuations.

[Roscolo]

It's easy to say 'oh I barely used it' - but without the printout showing the actual actuations - I don't put any faith in anyone saying it just 'wore out from sitting'. 

I've only made a couple prints since the change, here's my current print out - let's see everyone else's so we can gather actual data and not go off guesses and BS.

My belt went around 44k actuations.

Excellent. Maybe walter.sk can check his numbers and add to the thread. Might could eliminate simple decomposition due to time from why the belts don't last. My workstation is off right now, but I'll check mine. How many actuations does the HP manual say the belt should perform with no flakes coming off the belt ruining prints?

[kaelaria]

Walter can't contribute, he can't print.

The manual says it should be 6 MILLION cycles or 5 years before it needs service.  That seems insanely high to me and I question it's reality.

[Roscolo]

The manual says it should be 6 MILLION cycles or 5 years before it needs service.  That seems insanely high to me and I question it's reality.

Or maybe that supports the theory that the belts are defective and aren't lasting anywhere near as long as they should. Not even as long as what the manual says they should. The defective belts seem so widespread that maybe the problem should be a recall.

How did you view the number of actuations? I don't see anywhere in the HP Utility or front panel. My z3100 is connected via USB.