Poll

Should it be permissible to copy and re-edit another's post in this section?

Yes, copying and re-editing is OK
- 25 (67.6%)
No, no copying allowed.
- 0 (0%)
Why all the fuss?
- 12 (32.4%)

Total Members Voted: 34


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Author Topic: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?  (Read 3129 times)

John R Smith

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Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« on: March 04, 2011, 09:17:05 am »

Rather than hi-jack Andres' thread (and take attention away from his rather dramatic picture), I thought we could have a poll on this issue. What we are talking about is a situation where those commenting on someone else's picture - right-click on it, copy it to PS, make a re-edit (a crop, convert to B/W etc) and then post it back into the thread to illustrate an alternative approach.

Stamper and Rob feel this is bad manners and do not approve, I feel that it is fine as long as the basic etiquette is observed (that is, we never attempt to rubbish someone else's work). What do you feel?

John
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 09:33:22 am »

I would suggest two (somewhat cumbersome) procedures that could be employed to minimize hurt feelings:

1.   Those posting who do not want others to diddle with their images might say so in their original post, and

2.   In the absence of any such indication from the OP, a responder could PM the original poster asking for permission before proceeding.

That being said, it seems to me that if you post an image in the critique section, you are inviting criticism, whether it be in verbal or pictorial form.
I personally don't mind seeing other's variants on my images (as long as they don't claim them for use outside of the forum).

Eric
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fike

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 09:57:54 am »

If you feel that your image is somehow sacred, I recommend that you don't post it to a critique forum.

When you publish an image to the web, you lose control of the image.  For this reason, most photographers limit the resolution that they publish so that the impact of people co opting their work is minimal.  Legally if you post it to a forum, and someone modifies it without attempting to take ownership or make some profit off the work, I don't think you have any recourse.  Get over it or don't publish to the web.

As for whether it is polite to modify someone else's work: I think if it was posted to a photography critique forum there is an expectation that it will be critiqued, and one of the best ways to accomplish that is with a quick sample of your recommended processing change (crop, levels, color balance, cloning, compositing a mickey mouse on it). 

If you are posting to a critique forum, I think you should expect that others will modify your image.  You are asking for feedback and advice, so obviously you are in a learning mode.  It really isn't very gracious to ask for advice and then to be upset about how people give that advice.  It is your choice whether to post to a critique forum. 
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RSL

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 10:36:16 am »

I'm with Marc 100%. It's like people complaining when they see someone making a picture on the street that includes them. If you don't want your picture taken stay off the street and if you don't want your picture critiqued with a demonstration stay off critique fora.
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francois

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 10:51:34 am »

Personally, I see no problem in re-editing images...
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Francois

walter.sk

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 11:00:40 am »

As long as there is no attempt to use another person's image without explicit permission, I have no problem with my posted pictures being changed as part of a critique.  Sometimes a picture is worth 1K words...
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 11:06:25 am »

I am replying here to stamper's question in the LACMA thread, in order to avoid hijacking that thread.

... the question remains is it a breach of copyright law to download - without the owner's consent - and manipulate it? If I downloaded a colour version of one of your images and converted it to B&W and posted it on another thread could you definitely state it was yours?...

No, it is not a breach unless you publish it under your name, or use it outside of fair use doctrine. Reposting, even with alterations, for the purpose of criticizing or commenting, as is the case in internet forums, would fall under fair use.

jdemott

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 11:45:48 am »

Photography is a visual art, communicating with images.  It is quite natural to respond to a photo by speaking in the same visual language.  If we critique a photo by saying that it should be warmer or darker or cropped differently, it may be difficult to understand what is being said.  But if we critique by posting an edited version, then everyone can see immediately what is being said.
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John DeMott

shutterpup

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 12:26:12 pm »

I've had this done to one of my images before and have no problem with it. It's easy to see what someone else's take on my photo is and gives me a clear visual alternative.
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Patricia Sheley

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 12:31:48 pm »

Just a bit off track...Had a three dimensional design instructor at Pratt who would walk in, usually 20 min- 1/2 hour after Critique day was to have begun...would start a cursory wander around the studio and then with a full broad arm would sweep across our workbenches smashing our two week assignments to the floor...

...then and only then would he begin to review/comment/deconstruct those worthy of his time....

don't want critique, keep it your private reserve...
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 03:09:39 pm »

I've had this done to one of my images before and have no problem with it. It's easy to see what someone else's take on my photo is and gives me a clear visual alternative.
So have I. You're absolutely right.

I think Eric's suggestion is good, though: if you don't want your image edited, say so and one would hope and expect people here to respect your wishes.

Jeremy
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popnfresh

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 06:49:46 pm »

I'm with Marc 100%. It's like people complaining when they see someone making a picture on the street that includes them. If you don't want your picture taken stay off the street and if you don't want your picture critiqued with a demonstration stay off critique fora.
+1

If it's only adulation you're looking for, post it to your online gallery and keep your fingers crossed.

If you post to this forum it's a given that you're inviting constructive criticism. And sometimes the best way to illustrate a point about a photograph is to post an alternative approach. Discussion ensues. People agree, people disagree. It can get messy. People have egos and egos bruise easily. We try to be civil, but sometimes we get carried away. In the end, maybe somebody will learn something, maybe not. But in the grand scheme of things all that really matters is that cold beer waiting for you when it's all over.
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wolfnowl

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 06:58:06 pm »

As the old adage goes, "A picture is worth a thousand words".  In the thousand words it takes to explain how I perceive something, I can post a quick edit - in the same thread.  I don't have a problem with people doing that to my work, and I gain in having different views of the same image.  Over on Flickr there's a 'Photoshop Fixes' group, where everyone starts with the same image and creates their own variants.  I recently started something similar on the site of my local camera group.

However, as has been said, if someone doesn't want their image touched I would certainly respect that.  I also wouldn't offer any comment on it as a 'verbal assault' to me is equivalent.  Now the original question was about 'copyright' and I don't know that there's a lawyer in the world who would touch that one.  The computer server is in Canada, but members are posting from ? different countries?

My $0.02.

Mike.
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popnfresh

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 06:58:23 pm »

Or post in the without prejudice thread wich is critic and cropper free.

Which should probably be its own forum, rather than being tucked inside this one.
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EduPerez

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Re: Poll: Should Re-editing be Allowed in the Critique Section?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2011, 03:17:08 am »

On some other forums, each user can add a "image editing allowed / not allowed" to their profile; that indication it then shown on each post, under their user name.
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