Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper  (Read 2667 times)

fastbilly

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« on: March 03, 2011, 07:25:22 am »


I recently purchased some Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta (glossy) paper (small, letter sized sheets) and have been making color prints on my Epson 3800 with Epson inks, using the profile provided by Hahnemuhle and the suggested media type: Luster. (I tried the Glossy setting too.) Printing though CS5, and photoshop is managing the colors. My problem: All of the prints are are covered with fine horizontal cracks like you might see on an old oil painting. Kind of an interesting effect, but they are completely unsellable.

The only other similar type paper I have used is the Epson Exhibition Fibre, with no such problem.

Has anyone experienced this, or know what could possibly be going wrong?

You help is appreciated.
Logged

howardm

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1984
Re: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 07:57:31 am »

are you sure they are cracks or are they perhaps scratches?  If scratches, that would indicate you need to set the 3800 printer driver to a wider platen gap and tell it to adjust paper thickness.  Otherwise, I'd definitely drop an email on Hahne.  Possible you got a bad batch or it was warehoused improperly.

fastbilly

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 08:09:25 am »

Thanks for responding.

I should have specified that the cracks are generally horizontal, but definitely not ruler-straight as if from a head strike.

I have written to Hahnemuhle and will post anything helpful that I may learn from them. I'll try widening the platen in the meantime, though I suspect that is not the problem.

Logged

dgberg

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2760
    • http://bergsprintstudio.com http://bergscustomfurniture.com
Re: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 08:21:57 am »

Did you spray them with any finish?

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1285
Re: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 08:26:45 am »

I'm also located in Massachussets a couple hours from where you are in Boston. I observed cracking on HN photo Rag Baryta when I was using some last winter. All I had to do to induce some cracking in the glossy microporous coating was to take the paper into a backward curl with a diameter of about 2 inches and I could hear it cracking. Your printer has a straight paper path, but are you perhaps trying to de-curl the paper before inserting? BTW, I went back a few months later during the more humid summer months with same batch of paper, and it didn't crack unless taken to a much sharper bend. The cause of the cracking sensitivity is low humidity, and the high gloss microporous papers tend to be more sensitive to the problem (I have seen it on other glossy papers as well EEF included), and the problem is further aggravated in the HN photo rag Baryta because the soft cotton rag base paper doesn't give the coating layer much rigid support.

In the dead of winter here in the Northeast, homes and offices get very dry inside due to heating of the outside air by the building's heating system, the relative humidity dropping to as low as 10%RH. This very cold winter we have been having doesn't help the situation.  Even with a humidifier most homes located in a cold northern climate can't be humidified to much more than about 20%RH (still very low) when outside air drops into subzero temperature range, otherwise condensation will start occurring on windows and worse yet in walls and crawl spaces.

The physical delicacy of some inkjet papers is a definite concern. More research is needed to see how much more prone to cracking and flaking the modern inkjet media is compared to traditional silver gelatin papers. Even traditional gelatin has humidity cycling problems, but it usually takes many years of strong seasonal cycling to induce cracks in traditional photographic prints. I never saw it happen so easily before.

regards,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 08:35:31 am by MHMG »
Logged

howardm

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1984
Re: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2011, 08:33:27 am »

I wonder if up'ing the drying time per pass might help.  sounds like given the humidity (I'm also in the Boston area) the paper is quite 'dry' and when it moistens up quickly during the printing, the coating isn't expanding as quickly as the base as the ink is absorbed.

Alan Goldhammer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4344
    • A Goldhammer Photography
Re: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 09:47:19 am »

I wonder if up'ing the drying time per pass might help.  sounds like given the humidity (I'm also in the Boston area) the paper is quite 'dry' and when it moistens up quickly during the printing, the coating isn't expanding as quickly as the base as the ink is absorbed.
I don't think this is a correct explanation.  The base should not be affected at all since the ink is only adsorbed by the coating (maybe a trace amount of moisture if that makes it to the base).  From a physico-chemical perspective, low humidity might lead to micro-fissures in the paper coating which are exacerbated when the ink is laid down upon printing.  The big question would then be whether this is reversible by exposing the paper to high humidity; if it is not then the paper is useless.  I think that Mark is correct in that more research is needed here.  The simplest experiment is to expose some paper to very low humidity for varying periods of time and see if this effect can be replicated (and the converse as well, expose dried out paper to high humidity to see if it is reversible).

I've not observed this here in Maryland.  We have a humidifier on our furnace which keeps things about 30-35% during the winter and my printer is downstairs on the bottom level which is probably the "dampest" room in our house.  One solution might be to by a small room humidifier to place near the storage/printing area to insure that you don't drop much below the recommended humidity.
Logged

howardm

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1984
Re: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2011, 10:04:17 am »

I was just trying to figure out if the cracking was the coating itself or if it was a function of possibly differing expansion rates of the coating vs base when subjected to moisture. Ie, is it dimensional instability between the two or is just the coating failing.

Interesting that this specific paper is affected (isn't this the same paper w/ the odd magenta cast?)

Randy Carone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 628
Re: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2011, 12:14:51 pm »

The Baryta FB is the magenta cast paper.
Logged
Randy Carone

Sven W

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 514
Re: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2011, 02:31:38 pm »

Yes, I have similar winter as NorthEast US, 23 F and under for two months.
And it gets dry as in the desert, 10-20% RH. I have two humidifier running 10-12 h/day that barely makes 40% RH.
Lower than that and I'm unable to print. Clogging, flying dust, static electricity, strange behaviours of the papers and other phenomena.

/Sven
Logged
Stockholm, Sweden

Randy Carone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 628
Re: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta ink cracking on paper
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2011, 03:31:34 pm »

I have a 12' x 13' room in my house where I keep my high-end acoustic guitars. I keep the room humidified to 45 to 55% Relative Humidity using a Venta Airwasher Humidifier-Purifier. This humidifier does NOT put minerals in the air and takes dust from the room by way of a downward pointing fan that puts the dust into the water and evaporates the water film from a slowly rotating, finned drum. After trying several standard humidifiers, I have found this to be the best by far. I use the smallest model, the LW-14 and I am very happy with the performance. I put at least a gallon of water in this unit every morning, which gives you an idea of the high volume of water that is needed to keep the humidity at the proper level. Well worth the expense. This unit should do a great job keeping a small print lab at the correct humidity for the print heads and paper stored in the room. The fact that it removes dust from the air is an obvious bonus. Here is the link - http://www.venta-airwasher.com/

BTW, I have no affiliation with Venta - I just like the product's performance.
Logged
Randy Carone
Pages: [1]   Go Up