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Author Topic: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?  (Read 11023 times)

yaya

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2011, 03:20:16 am »

DOF:  I do think from my testing that the DOF is shallower for a given focal length, aperture setting,and object distance parameter set than for say a 39mpix back.   I was working with a local sculptor to take images of one of his pieces and we had a hard time getting it all in the DOF envelope with the aptus/645DF/120mm but were able to do so with the CFii-39MS/6008AF/120mmPQS using the same framing.   I need to study this more to see how whether its really important to me or not.

I suppose you could set Sensorflex to 60MP 4:3 to get the same DOF as with the smaller sensor (and still enjoy higher resolution and Dalsa quality...)

Rgds from Berlin, horrible news from Japan...
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EricWHiss

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2011, 03:57:37 am »

Yeah terrible news about the earthquake.....


WRT DOF - I'll try that but my guess is that its the pitch not sensor size that affects DOF more.
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Gigi

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2011, 07:57:22 am »

DOF:  I do think from my testing that the DOF is shallower for a given focal length, aperture setting,and object distance parameter set than for say a 39mpix back.   I was working with a local sculptor to take images of one of his pieces and we had a hard time getting it all in the DOF envelope with the aptus/645DF/120mm but were able to do so with the CFii-39MS/6008AF/120mmPQS using the same framing.   I need to study this more to see how whether its really important to me or not.

Detail:  Yes, its there and it's glorious

Aptus screen and interface:  It seems like the aptus 12 takes a long time to boot up and perform other operations such as zoom to 100% and more so than the AFi-7 and AFi-ii 7 that I have briefly used - either way its a bit longer than I'd like. I am hoping that the new interface will be quicker to navigate with less steps, etc.   

Interesting observation on the DOF issue. Is it DOF that is changing or the emergence of diffraction? l would have thought DOF was determined by the lens and aperture, and not by the recording plane, be it film or pixels. Anyone got some theory to go with this?

The AFi-II 7 isn't a speed demon on the 100%, but it is workable. One can imagine that with more to crunch, this might be an issue in the 12. It looks like the new Phase backs have that resolved.

Did you like the interface (simple enough) or the articulating screen? For shooting low it really saves the back....
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Geoff

yaya

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2011, 08:20:50 am »

The new GUI will provide an improved zoom-in speed along with a few other useful improvements

Yair
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robert zimmerman

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2011, 10:43:05 am »

I used the 12 for a fashion job a couple of weeks ago and it drove me crazy. I knew it would.
waaaaaay too slow. tried c1 and lc, tried the sensor+ 60mp thing, tried everything, way too slow.
but the resolution was great – I could zoom in to see the hair on the models nose. yeah.
it was also fun giving the files to the post producer in the next room, who laughed and then down sized the files to about 20mp, throwing out 3/4 of the data before he even started to work on the files.  :o

so, you're asking: why did you use a aptus 12?
because when your camera back is being repaired and your dealer gives you the only back he has you take it...then you spend €400,- on a rental fee for a smaller mp back.

btw, the post producer also told me that's standard procedure – anything over 20-25mp for "normal" production purposes is downsized first – phase files, leaf files, hasselblad and canikon files.
€2500,- digi cameras or €40.000,- digital backs, all are treated equal in the real world of commerce.
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EricWHiss

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2011, 10:56:33 am »

Hi Geoff,
DOF is a convenient way to express the portion of the image that's sufficiently sharp to appear in focus even though in reality there is only one slice at the apex that's truly in focus.  Besides the physical properties of the optics, quite a lot of subjective factors go into our convention of DOF such as viewing distance and print size as well as assumptions made about how much detail the average human can perceive.  The overall sensor size comes into play in the magnification/print size portion of the equation and the sensor pitch fits into the diffraction component of the equation.  The Aptus ii 12 has both a larger sensor and finer pitch.  

The system I have to test is the aptus 12 on the phase/mamiya 645 DF body so the back does not have either the tilting screen or the rotating back - two attractive features to those of us on the Rollei/AFi platform.   As far as the leaf interface goes, I do like the idea of the extra features offered and I expect were I to buy and use the back my navigation through them would become second nature and I would take advantage of many of them.  I shoot a lot of my work tethered, however when I shoot to compact flash cards it's clear that the features to view, sort and delete images in camera will be really useful since the files are so big and fewer fit on the cards.

Eric
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EricWHiss

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2011, 11:02:33 am »

The new GUI will provide an improved zoom-in speed along with a few other useful improvements

Yair

Sounds great!  I'd think that eliminating some of the extra steps could really improve the workflow.  Since I didn't read the manual there may be a way to configure my preferences, but for example when reviewing the images I'd think that presenting the last ones shot first in the edit window would save a lot of time on review - at least for me.  Also having shot mostly with Phase and Hasselblad, I was constantly hung up on stuff like changing the ISO where an extra confirmation step was required where on the other backs none was.  I'd shoot a bit and look at the back to see how the images are coming out and see the message that the settings did not take effect because I didn't check the Ok button.
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EricWHiss

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2011, 12:22:19 pm »

Just wanted to add that I didn't have any problems with hitting the buffer or speed/frame issues.  My strobes cycle about the same rate anyhow...
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Neil Folberg

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2011, 05:34:16 pm »

Yair,

When will Lightroom/Photoshop support aptus 12 raw files?

Neil
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uaiomex

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2011, 09:38:07 pm »

An Aptus 12 with an AFi?  Man, you got the best gear-set possible in the year 2011 on the third rock from the sun. (imo)
Congratulations!
Eduardo

Hello,

Just got the 12 yesterday for the Afi. I will be shooting with it next week in the field, landscape, but I have big plans for tethered shoots in the next couple months - for which I'm quite excited to be using this platform - but speed will be a limitation I am concerned about. I'll post my first impressions ASAP.

Neil
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yaya

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2011, 12:24:49 am »

Yair,

When will Lightroom/Photoshop support aptus 12 raw files?

Neil

At the moment you can re-save them in LC and then go into ACR/ LR. We'll have a new Raw Converter version soon that supports the Aptus-II 12

Yair
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Neil Folberg

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2011, 03:40:27 pm »

Yair,

What do you mean "re-save"? You mean after I view them do a save as?

Neil
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EricWHiss

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2011, 03:48:48 pm »

Neil,
Prob not ideal, but I'm able to work the files in LR3 by just exporting them as DNG files from C1.     
Eric
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Neil Folberg

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2011, 04:14:05 pm »

Eric,

I'm sure this has been covered elsewhere, but what are the advantages/disadvantages of DNG files? Why would you choose specifically that format?

Neil
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yaya

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2011, 04:30:03 pm »

Yair,

What do you mean "re-save"? You mean after I view them do a save as?

Neil

Or adjust them (for example grey balance) and then hit Command+S. They will work better than DNGs in LR
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EricWHiss

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2011, 05:26:42 pm »

Yair,
Okay I'm testing the route through LC 11.45 now to LR3 and that seems to work fine.   While I had the aptus 12 demo I decided to shoot a stouffer transmission wedge.  My goal is to get a linear file with no noise reduction to use for DR comparisons.  In  LC 11.45 the options appear to be portrait, portrait soft, or product.  How can I tell LC to save as a linear file or does it do that automatically?  I know once it gets into LR3 how to set the curve to linear. 

Thanks,
Eric
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Frank Doorhof

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2011, 02:32:18 am »

As promised.
Yesterday I shot several demos and small in between sessions with the aptus12 on the phase DF body.
I have to add I use the new macbookpro 2.2 with 8 gb which is on tests twice as fast as the previous version (thank you sandy bridge).

Booting up takes long, but this will be shorter soon I heard ;)
Working is less problematic as I thought from hearing things of slowness, to be honest is was surprisingly quick, even when shooting quick series the MacBook kept up the pace with one small difference with the 7 it was just done with the preview when the next came in (my old MacBook didn't) with the aptus12 it didn't cope that well but when you slow down for DEMO purposes to 1 frame every 2-3 seconds which is fast enough for demos it's fast.
When I shoot a series for myself I only look at the monitor when I'm done so that's no issue in the real world.

Overall I'm not disappointed with the speed and could see myself with MY workflow using it, even in shooting continues the pace was Fast enough for me and relaxed enough for the model. Remember that as long as the model can get into the "groove" or "pace" of the strobes firing it's ok, as long as it's steady.

The quality is very good from what I can se on my laptop, I underexposed one or two shots to see how far they can be pushed and in capture one I could set the lightness/fill in on full with ISO50 and the files kept relatively solid especially considering this is 80mps watched on 100% but I can say for sure when I'm home behind a proper monitor.

Than about the sharpness and quality... Can I just say wow, wicked and did I say interesting ;)
Of course we all know what will happen when you go to 80mp from a 33 so that's no surprise of course there is a boatload of information and when focussed correctly I can't say it's softer than my aptus7.

Will I get one ?
Well if I get one I would love it.
If I have to buy one ;) I don't know yet, for what I do the aptus7 rocks and has more than enough meat and pixels, for people needing the extra mp I would highly recommend it.
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yaya

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2011, 04:50:07 am »

Yair,
Okay I'm testing the route through LC 11.45 now to LR3 and that seems to work fine.   While I had the aptus 12 demo I decided to shoot a stouffer transmission wedge.  My goal is to get a linear file with no noise reduction to use for DR comparisons.  In  LC 11.45 the options appear to be portrait, portrait soft, or product.  How can I tell LC to save as a linear file or does it do that automatically?  I know once it gets into LR3 how to set the curve to linear.  

Thanks,
Eric

Eric if you use the .mos files in LR then you can use any curve you like...it's a raw file. Those curves in LC are for processing they do not affect the raw file

cheers yair
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 11:09:19 am by yaya »
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Frank Doorhof

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2011, 03:22:34 pm »

Posted a small mini review of the Aptus12 on my blog at http://www.frankdoorhof.com/site/?p=1427
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fredjeang

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Re: Aptus 12 users... How do you like it?
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2011, 03:42:08 pm »

Posted a small mini review of the Aptus12 on my blog at http://www.frankdoorhof.com/site/?p=1427
Frank,

You should be immediatly decorated ! This is one of the very few testings I saw that does not involved a brick wall, a fence, a roof, a wreck car or a city's garden whith tourists. Finaly images that are final products!

What shows the final crop of the first pic is nothing less than impressive. Really impressive.

Well, if a flattened tiff is 500MB, we are talking about an average retouching of 5 gigas in psd !!!
That's damn serious and we are more in video configuration in terms of memory consuming.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2011, 04:13:06 pm by fredjeang »
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