PhotoPhase problem, lines on image

[Josef_Meier]

Hi,

these stripes are normal with the old scanning backs. I worked with Powerphase and Photophase and both had them.

Stripes in scanning direction are sensitivity problems with the ccd line. Some pixels dont see all colors the same way.

Of course you have to clean the ccd line before.


Unfortunatly Phaseone doesnt have a calibration routine, that eliminates the problems. (every flatbed scanner does)

So you can only get rid of the stripes in Photoshop.

At the version of that time gues 3 or 4 there was a neat filtertool you could do real filter maths with and substract the stripes in each color.

Based on a grayscale scan.


You can see all the problems in your ccd line if you scan solid gray. You can see the lines in all different colors then.
Try different grays (lighter / darker) and you will see where you have to be carefull.



But look these backs are really old over 15 years now. They are completly old fashion.

There are still some guys running around telling how superb these backs are ..............

As resolution isnt an issue anymore they now say that they have better color rendering....



Even for reproduction, they are outperformed by every newer back.


Would you believe someone telling windows 95 or a 15 year old flatbed scanner is superb ?

Simply sell it at ebay, thats where madness gathers.

[billthecat]

Thanks for the advice.

My personal interest is in having an almost 4x5 digital camera, but the image quality is not up to what I had expected. I'll try Ebay.

Bill

[Peter Devos]

Sorry Josef, but  this is pure nonsense. I have had 4 scanbacks of wich i still own 3. One was sold to a member here on LL that experianced those red, bleu and green lines. I was very sad to here that and invited him over to me to find out what went wrong. As we made test images here it appeared that nothing was wrong with the scanback. I severely examened my other backs for stripes and errors, even postponed a planned selling of them but could not find any trace of errors etc. So maybe there have been units that had problems but all the photographers i know still using them, as myself do not have seen those errors. There are many things that can go wrong, not just the back.
Secondly, a scanback is far from obsolete. It still is a unique performer in terms of rendering and use of optics. They were developed in close cooperation with Pre-press suppliers and companies. Therefore they deliver an image that of all digital devices has the most filmisch look of them all. They give an image that special film look, filmisch grain and feel that no IQ180 or Leaf80Mp will ever be able to do. Also they are the only devices that have at least full frame 6/6cm on a hasselblad 500cm, even bigger on a TC giving you optical possibillities unseen with modern backs. They also force you to work on a different way wich for many of us can be a blessing. An image will be certainly more thought of before taking the pictue, pressing the button.
And the greatest thing about them is they cost almost nothing. For a real creative photographer, someone who knows where to use a tool for and how tho express himself it stil is an unsurpassed device. I agree that for most photographers that shoot 957 images an hour just to select one reasonable image out of them it is absolutely not the tool of choice.

[Josef_Meier]

Well funny again. Its allways the guys that want to sell them say how fabuolose they are.........

I never found one who tested it said that they a are superb.

I had to work with them at a time as nothing better was available but I dumped mine as soon as multishot backs where availabel.

The setup with lighting is kind of annoying it kills all creativity.



"They were developed in close cooperation with Pre-press suppliers and companies."
right Peter 15 years ago like my win 95 Laptop with Photoshop 2.5


There are differneces in how strong these color stripes are depending on the quality of your ccd line but all backs I had seen had them.

The Powerphase had less than the Photophase.

Peter, please take a sollid grey field in different shades and you will see them. Especially in dark tones.

Its just old CCD s. They had trouble getting better quality in this resolution at that time.


So, no need to get personal and defence 15 year old computer technology unless you want to sell it.......

[Peter Devos]

Josef, it is not about getting personal, it is about explaining that for some people some features of old equipment can and do have merits. On most fora all importance goes to the ultimate quality one can achieve with a 80Mp sensor to have the image ultimately printed at 10/15 centimeters. I do not say these backs are better or as good as my H3dII-39 MS, but they do have features the Hasselblad does not have: one of them is usng them on a TC with beautifull out of focus. People who buy a scanback these days do not so for quality but to make a different kind of images, to use your TC again, to get that great soft feeling from an old Petzval lens etc. If you want ultimate quality, go get a leaf 80Mp, try to find a lens that is up to that resolution and make money (after dropping 50k). If you for a bit of money want to enjoy making images with a scanback: go ahead.
I also love making collodium images, they aren't sharp, do mis a lot of tonality but look just great and still arent possible do do with any digital back.

[Josef_Meier]

Sounds better now, so we are doing art with old fashioned equipment. Thats fine I do this sometimes as well.
But the image quality of these backs is far away from ultimate quality.

Even if you overlook the stripes. Everybody will figure it out after working with them.

The technology is intersting of course, but the old ccds are bad - thats a fact.

There are some techy guys in Japan on the web hacking a new Epson scanner with a new !!!!  CCD line.
Just a 90$ scanner. But it has an up to date ccd line.
And they are getting really outstanding image quality on a big scanning area, due to newer image sensors.

Hopefully some company will pick up the idea and supply as all with affordable new scanning technology so the old stuff can

go in the museum, where it belongs.

[Kumar]

I'm not sure about the Phase One scanbacks, but the Betterlight still holds its own. It is obviously not suited for all applications, but for architecture, interiors and landscapes, it does a great job. For those of us who like to work at a slower pace, it is an absolutely amazing tool.

Kumar

[dietmarhammerschmid]

Here one sample pictures:

captured with Powerphase FX (6300 x 4300 pixel; full resolution would be 10600 x 12500) and cambo wide with SA 47 XL

f16, 1/125 linetime

I think the image quality and resolution is better than 4x5" film.
of course you have some limitations with the scanback.....

... but for architecture photography it´s a great tool.