Rodenstock lens options/ Cambo..Rm3di?

[nicksouth]

Hello all,
I am assembling a medium format kit based on the Cambo
RS and P45+.
The good guys at Capture Intergration have assisted me with much advice on lens and back options, now maybe final words of wisdom from some seasoned forum members!
I was considering a two lens kit, one wide and one normal focal length.
The three lenses i considered from Rodenstock were the 32mm, 40mm and 70mm HR options.
I realise the rear shifts give wide FOV with not so wide lenses but as i shoot(100% landscapes) long exposure stuff up to 30 sec-5 minutes. I feel regular stitching/ LCC slides/ dark slides will get a touch complicated fast!
I guess the 32mm would equate to 22mm in 35mm terms and the 40mm would equate to 28mm in 35mm terms, with the 70mm giving approx 50mm in 35mm terms?
I have also had advice from knowledgable source that the Rodenstock HR glass is a little more future proof on the new IQ sensors (possible upgrade) compared to the Schnieder XL galss which i also considered.
A tilt board would probably be used for the 40mm lens but perhaps the 32mm would not require tilt for dof?
Any tilting would be for plane of focus dof adjustments.
Finally to throw in yet another variable...how does the Arca Swiss Rm3d compare price wise to the Cambo RS??

Thanks in advance.

Nick
Fiordland
New Zealand.

[marcmccalmont]

I went through the same exercise a year ago, my most used lens with a P45+ is a Mamiya 55-105
On my 5DII it is my 24-105 so I ended up with 3 lenses for my wrs, rodenstock 40HR, 70HR and 105
I had the 70 and 105 mounted on the tilt swing mounts.
Marc

[nicksouth]

Hi Marc, do you find the 40mm wide enough unshifted? Cheers

[haefnerphoto]

Hello all,
I am assembling a medium format kit based on the Cambo
RS and P45+.
The good guys at Capture Intergration have assisted me with much advice on lens and back options, now maybe final words of wisdom from some seasoned forum members!
I was considering a two lens kit, one wide and one normal focal length.
The three lenses i considered from Rodenstock were the 32mm, 40mm and 70mm HR options.
I realise the rear shifts give wide FOV with not so wide lenses but as i shoot(100% landscapes) long exposure stuff up to 30 sec-5 minutes. I feel regular stitching/ LCC slides/ dark slides will get a touch complicated fast!
I guess the 32mm would equate to 22mm in 35mm terms and the 40mm would equate to 28mm in 35mm terms, with the 70mm giving approx 50mm in 35mm terms?
I have also had advice from knowledgable source that the Rodenstock HR glass is a little more future proof on the new IQ sensors (possible upgrade) compared to the Schnieder XL galss which i also considered.

 
A tilt board would probably be used for the 40mm lens but perhaps the 32mm would not require tilt for dof?
Any tilting would be for plane of focus dof adjustments.
Finally to throw in yet another variable...how does the Arca Swiss Rm3d compare price wise to the Cambo RS??

Thanks in advance.

Nick
Fiordland
New Zealand.

I'm in the process of reviewing/learning the various systems and their advantages and disadvantages.  Just a month ago or so there was a post that had a pdf attached with comparisons of all the different tech cameras.  Take a look at it, it's pretty comprehensive.  Since I'm not "seasoned" with the use of this equipment I can only tell you what I've learned to date.  The Cambo is approximately half the cost of the Arca RM3di but the cost of the T/S capability for each of the lenses is higher.  It's been explained to me by the Capture Integration folks that the break even point between the two systems is at 3 lenses (with T/S).  The other main difference is that there isn't a sliding back available for the Cambo, so to compose a shot using the ground glass means that the back will have to be removed.  Apparently, there're view finders etc that make composing with the back on not too difficult.  Chris Barrett has a great review of the Arca on his blog plus some nice pictures of the camera.  It is very cool looking.  It's amazing to me that Arca doesn't have a website, I understand it's forthcoming but still kind of hard to believe.  Finding info on these pieces of equipment isn't as easy as you'd think.  Jack Flescher (DPI Review) has a good review of the Cambo, by the way.  I was pretty much set on the Arca RM3di because of the tilt capability of the front lensboard and lateral and vertical shift of the back until I stumbled upon the Arca M2 which is a small view camera that will accept both wide and long lenses as well as having tilt and swing on the front standard with a lot of shift and rise/fall on the rear.  In addition to my architecture work, I shoot automotive advertising and the M2 has quite a few applications in the studio.  Lenses are less expensive for this camera too.  Apparently, there can be focus issues with this camera so in a few weeks I'll be heading to Atlanta to review the M2, RM3di and the Cambo before coming to a conclusion.  Lens wise I'm considering the 32 and the 47 (I believe both Rodenstocks) to start off with.   Jim

[Mr. Rib]

...snip... In addition to my architecture work, I shoot automotive advertising and the M2 has quite a few applications in the studio.  Lenses are less expensive for this camera too. ...snip... 

As far as I understand, lenses on M2 and RM3D are exchangable- with an adapter (distance) ring you can use the same lenses on both systems. Doesn't this rule apply to RM3Di as well? If it does, the lens cost would be the same. (or maybe I misunderstood you and you were comparing Cambo lens prices to Arca lens prices).

[haefnerphoto]

As far as I understand, lenses on M2 and RM3D are exchangable- with an adapter (distance) ring you can use the same lenses on both systems. Doesn't this rule apply to RM3Di as well? If it does, the lens cost would be the same. (or maybe I misunderstood you and you were comparing Cambo lens prices to Arca lens prices).

The lenses on the Rm3di focus with a helical mount which isn't necessary with the view camera (it focuses by moving the lens further or closer to the ground glass, with the lens and shutter mounted to a lens board).  They are interchangeable in the sense that the view camera lenses will fit into the Rm3di helical mount.  At least that's how I understand it.  Jim

[Mr. Rib]

What I meant was 'interchangebale' , not 'exchangable', sorry for my english. And I think your understanding is correct and my understanding is the same Another cool feature which was mentioned here and there is that you can use your RM3D (again, I don't know about RM3Di but the rule should hold in this case as well) as a front standard of M2 camera. I guess you can also fine-tune your focus with the helical mount while using RM3D as a front standard of M2 (I think Chris Barrett mentioned this functionality somewhere on LuLa). But going back to the main topic- the important feature is the interchangability of the lenses. Thanks to that, if you find yourself needing to purchase a regular, 'bellows' technical camera after some time (not a pancake like Cambo / Arca / Alpa etc) and own a RM3Di / RM3D / RL3D, M2 would is a real money saver.

[gazwas]

I was pretty much set on the Arca RM3di because of the tilt capability of the front lensboard and lateral and vertical shift of the back until I stumbled upon the Arca M2 which is a small view camera that will accept both wide and long lenses as well as having tilt and swing on the front standard with a lot of shift and rise/fall on the rear.  In addition to my architecture work, I shoot automotive advertising and the M2 has quite a few applications in the studio.  Lenses are less expensive for this camera too.  Apparently, there can be focus issues with this camera so in a few weeks I'll be heading to Atlanta to review the M2, RM3di and the Cambo before coming to a conclusion.  Lens wise I'm considering the 32 and the 47 (I believe both Rodenstocks) to start off with.   Jim

I am just about to pull the trigger on the M2 as it seems the perfect studio and location tool but never heard of any focus issues with this camera.

Can you explain? 

[haefnerphoto]

I am just about to pull the trigger on the M2 as it seems the perfect studio and location tool but never heard of any focus issues with this camera.

Can you explain? 

Apparently, the ability to make precise and minute focus adjustments is not as fine as the Rm3di's helical system.  I really hope it's a non-issue but I want to try it before I buy it.  Jim 

[darr]

I own and use a M2 and find the idea of not having precision focusing not true!  I also own and use an ALPA Max (pancake tech camera) and these are two different types of tools.  The M2 is my studio digital camera and the ALPA is my traveling landscape camera.  I would definitely try both cameras and look at the cost of your lens preferences before I would make a buying decision. 

[haefnerphoto]

I own and use a M2 and find the idea of not having precision focusing not true!  I also own and use an ALPA Max (pancake tech camera) and these are two different types of tools.  The M2 is my studio digital camera and the ALPA is my traveling landscape camera.  I would definitely try both cameras and look at the cost of your lens preferences before I would make a buying decision. 

Darr, I'm glad to hear that!!  It's my hope that I will only need one camera though.  Jim

[gazwas]

+1

Mastering one camera sounds a much better option than two. 

[darr]

Darr, I'm glad to hear that!!  It's my hope that I will only need one camera though.  Jim

Jim,
The M2 would make an excellent landscape camera if I wanted to carry it out on my trips, but I am 5'2", petite, and over 50, so I travel as light as possible these days.  

[marcmccalmont]

Hi Marc, do you find the 40mm wide enough unshifted? Cheers

I find wide angle lenses not as natural looking as a standard focal length, so If I want wide, I tend towards a spherical panorama using a more standard focal length lens (just my preference)
So the 40mm is generally wide enough and a flat stitch gets you a nice 6x4 aspect ratio (my preference for a landscape orientation prints) I chose not to go wide because of the above, lens cost and center filters.
When I need a single shot wide like in a room I use my 5DII with the Nikon 14-24/adapter
Marc

[archivue]

with the M2 you rely only on the focusing screen... and with some lenses (35mm for example), you can't be 100% shure...

the M2 is really excellent, but for landscape i will go with the RM3D !

[gazwas]

with the M2 you rely only on the focusing screen... and with some lenses (35mm for example), you can't be 100% shure...

Could you explain why that makes any difference?

I know the focusing mechanism is different (moving standards vs helical) between both cameras but does that not apply when making movements?
Both then focus using the ground glass screen don't they?

[archivue]

no, with the RM3D you just compose on the ground glass... you adjust the helical ring to the desire value (every lens have his chart with correspondance !)

[Rod.Klukas]

The RM3di is able to focus from extremely close, 1/2 again as close as any of the other competition, to infinity with extreme accuracy.  The lenses are mounted and tested by Arca-Swiss in France to in sure proper and precise calibration for the most accurate focus.  They also make an adapter board to 110 size which would allow use on a standard 6x9 or similar Arca camera.
It should be noted that focusing on the ground glass with wide angle lenses is hit and miss and increasingly more difficult as you get shorter in focal length. 

The RM3di with its integral tilt and wide throat also allows for great movement without the sliding back and, if the lens allows, even more with the sliding back attachment. 
More info on the cameras  at rodklukas.com 

Rod

[mtomalty]

The RM3di with its integral tilt and wide throat also allows for great movement

Hi Rod,

Is there a link where I can see this feature in detail?
Is the tilt adjustable or pre-set in the way Linhof handles shift (rise/fall)  on their Technorama 612 and 617 film cameras?

Thanks,
Mark

[Rod.Klukas]

Mark,

The tilt is adjustable and or you can determine presets for your self in about 20 or 40 minutes with some testing.

I use about 1/2 tilt and  a 6 setting for my 72mm and get about 27 ft to infinity.  With some rise the near is taken care of as I am tall. F11

With the 55mm I get 10 ft to infinity with 1/4 tilt. F11

28mm 2.8  I use 0 and get 6.5 ft to infinity at F11 (No tilt possible with this lens.)

Rod