Pentax shows prototype portrait lens for 645D, roadmaps 2 more zooms

[Radu Arama]

Hello all,

Today the CP+ show opens in Japan (the biggest in Japan for this year and very important to all local producers). Hoya (the parent company of Pentax) show last year the prototype of what become D FA 25/4 lens and at this year's edition they present the unmarked prototype of a "portrait lens". Images are copyright of digitalcamera.jp and dc.watch.impress.co.jp:





This lens is quite hefty in size for a short telephoto which IMO could signal either an unusual aperture for a medium format lens or a central shutter or maybe both. The focal is given as "between 75 and 125 mm" on the chart, my guess is it will be over 100 mm. This lens will most likely make its commercial debut one year from now (early 2012).

Also Pentax show a road map that hints the replacement of three zooms by 2014 with a wide to normal 30-70 taking in 2013 the place of both 33-55 and 45-85 and a standard to moderate tele 65 - 150 or so coming in 2014 more or less substituting the 80 - 160/4.5.



The rest of the lenses marked on the chart are in production and they start to become available again in Europe.

Regards,
Radu

[Radu Arama]

source:http://www.digitalcamera.jp







Radu

[tsjanik]

Thanks for posting. I had not seen this. Very encouraging.  The portrait lens looks like a 67 lens; the 105mm could be a twin.

[paratom]

I think Pentax should work hard to offer at least the most important lenses asap.
In my case the discussion about lenses and how good/bad existing lenses work and when we will see new lenses was one of the reasons why I decided against the Pentax.
IMO they should have at least a wide angle, a new 75mm and a portrait lenses availabel now or in the next few months.

[ndevlin]

Pentax doesn't need a new 75mm. The existing AF 75mm f2.8 is outstanding with teh 645D. The 120mm Macro is equally good.

For $4000 a pop, they can keep their new lenses.

- N.

[bcooter]

Pentax doesn't need a new 75mm. The existing AF 75mm f2.8 is outstanding with teh 645D. The 120mm Macro is equally good.

For $4000 a pop, they can keep their new lenses.

- N.

Nick.

No offense man, but I don't get it.

I'm not selling Pentax, or any camera, but there is nothing in the larger than 35mm world that gets that wide for less money, short of pulling out an old view camera and trying to find focus on an old lens and even then I don't think the results would be that great next to the modern lenses and smaller Alpa type of cameras.

Glass is expensive and as I've said, still guys get off cheap and if I was Pentax, knowing that the majority of the Japanese base is shooting Landscapes, I'd go for all I could get for a wide lens.

Plus, aren't you a lawyer or something?   Rich lawyers can afford it.  It's cheaper than repair on a Carerra S.

(insert smiley face somewhere).

IMO

BC

[paratom]

The problem is that some say the existing lenses work great on digital - others say they are not up too. Reports about the 75 are mostly positive though.
Still would be nice to have weather proof lenses on a weatherproof body.
In the end MF is about maximum IQ and I dont think it would be a good idea if Pentax would make cost driven IQ compromises with new lenses.
I dont think they can earn much money with the price of the body and they need to make some money.

[Rob C]

If I was a Pentax 645 owner I'd hope they'd do it well rather than on the cheap.  

Hi Keith

And that's exactly how I wish that Nikon still thought. Was a time I bought Nikkors without the suggestion of a mental question mark about quality; that's now gone from my list of certainties. I always weighed up the commercial viability of anything I used to buy when it was my living, and probably the only impulse thing I ever bought was a 500 cat. It didn't, ultimately, get much useage, but what it did still sits in my tranny files and some now on the website. Nothing else did what it did.

But, my last purchase, that ill-fated 2.8/24-70G has ruined Nikkors in my eyes. It was my first and last zoom (I expect) but I can't get over how compromised a thing it is. Why even market something that falls so short of the primes? Yeah, I already have the answer: because so many more will buy and swear by than at it.

Rob C

[Lacunapratum]

Totally agree with Keith and Brian.  Why should Pentax have better lenses and charge less than the competition to be looked down upon by Leica fan boys and other snobs.  All that matters is whether this lens holds up.  If it does it would be a great tool for medium format digital and one more plus for the Pentax system. 

[Radu Arama]

Some more information from CP+ show:

1) Apparently there is no final decision yet about the focal lenght and the aperture of the portrait lens but it will be in the 75-135 mm range. My personal belief is that it will have 100 mm or higher and f2.4 or lower (maybe even f2). Anyway the presented mock up looks rather huge in the movie bellow having the 645D next to it as a reference.
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5cQ1WkghZ4 although the talk is in Japanese there is a hands on with the 25/4 and some moments with the beautiful K-5 Silver Limited and the Silver DA Limited. Speaking about the stature of Pentax in Japan at this very moment the reservation for K-5 are actually the number 1 in Amazon Top 100 for dslr sales and all Japanese stock for the DA Limiteds seems sold out (most likely to dealers).

Radu

LE: Pentax also show a GPS module that apparently will sit in the hot shoe.

[tsjanik]

.....If I was a Pentax 645 owner I'd hope they'd do it well rather than on the cheap.  

How about well and affordable, something of a Pentax tradition?  I don’t dispute your (or Rob’s or BC’s) comments, but I think you see the price from a different perspective.  Anyone using digital MF is accustomed to the prices Hasselblad or Phase charge, not so Pentax users.  Most of the lenses for the 67 or 645 systems were under $3000.   Pentax may have decided to charge the same as other MF manufactures, but frankly I think it is a mistake.  Will anyone using a Phase or Hasselblad switch to Pentax?   Pentax needs to attract buyers who might otherwise buy a Canon or Nikon.   The Nikon 14-24mm costs less than $2000, the Zeiss 18mm under $1400. I suspect I’m a typical 645D buyer. I’m an amateur, I have a closest full of 645/67 lenses, but I don’t need any lens.  Had I known the price of the 25mm before I purchased a 645D, I might have gone the Nikon route, maybe even Canon, although I doubt that

PS Really like your “Found Paintings”

[ndevlin]

Nick.

No offense man, but I don't get it.
<snip>
Glass is expensive and as I've said, still guys get off cheap and if I was Pentax, knowing that the majority of the Japanese base is shooting Landscapes, I'd go for all I could get for a wide lens.

Plus, aren't you a lawyer or something?   Rich lawyers can afford it.  It's cheaper than repair on a Carerra S.

BC

Hey James,

Lawyer yes, rich no. If you could talk our federal government into paying its prosecutors more, I'd be much obliged.

I agree that the 25mm looks like unique lens, and you're right that a lot in Japan might line up to buy it.  I was thinking more about their lens road-map.  A large part of the excitement around this system was financial accessibility. I just think the world has enough $4K lenses. If that's what they're proposing, I'm just not excited anymore. If I were shopping in this price-range, I'd likely drop the extra $2K for a Leica lens, which will be better and will never lose a dime in value.

Based on what I saw in studio with the 45-85, 75 and 120 yesterday, the only issue they have is focusing (not accuracy, but speed - the 35mms smoke the 645D, obviously). Sharpness is everything one could ask or need.

@Klaban: you don't think something this wide is a specialty lens? Ok, that's your view. It's just not something that the vast majority of photographers have regular call for. Make a top 100 landscape photos of all time list, and likely none (or a handful at most) will have been shot with anything this wide.

Also, I'm also not sure why you seem so eager to piss on my lawn at every opportunity. I haven't any idea who you are or how I have offended you.

- N.

[bcooter]

Hey James,

Lawyer yes, rich no. If you could talk our federal government into paying its prosecutors more, I'd be much obliged.

I agree that the 25mm looks like unique lens, and you're right that a lot in Japan might line up to buy it.  I was thinking more about their lens road-map.  A large part of the excitement around this system was financial accessibility. I just think the world has enough $4K lenses. If that's what they're proposing, I'm just not excited anymore. If I were shopping in this price-range, I'd likely drop the extra $2K for a Leica lens, which will be better and will never lose a dime in value.

Based on what I saw in studio with the 45-85, 75 and 120 yesterday, the only issue they have is focusing (not accuracy, but speed - the 35mms smoke the 645D, obviously). Sharpness is everything one could ask or need.

Nick,

Sorry your not a rich cat, hell I wanted to ask you about the Carerra.

Anyway, your right 4k is nothing to sneeze at, but for a 24 that's a good price.  Heck I bought to 35mm lenses for my Contax and I think they costs me that (for two), but they're not nearly as wide and I only use them about once every year, but when I need em' I really need em.

You know, I was shooting in some Botanical Garden outside of Osaka, some lifestyle ads and a video interview.  While we were waiting for our celeb to show up I was watching the Japanese amateurs with their Pentax 645's and the Mamiya 645 (the old old ones with the removable prism) and 6x7's, mounted on those articulating arm tripods with all kinds of lenses.  Those cameras were pristine and once those guys move to digital they're gonna buy the Pentax, no doubt and I'm sure they'll spring for the 24 if they need it.  

I kind of dig those guys, I mean they spend 45 minutes just focusing on a flower petal before taking two frames of film.   Very cool.

I think the Pentax is without competition, mostly due to price but also the fact that Pentax does have a following and they do last a long time.  The only thing that bugs me is that you said Hoya was using the 645 to sell the camera company.  What's the deal man, doesn't anybody want to make cameras anymore?

Anyway, I think if Pentax could figure out a way to tether they'd probably take the world by storm, or at least a large chunk of the medium format sales, because it ain't a Nikon D3x but it's not suppose to be.

The only thing that keeps me from thinking about it is I have the Contax and they do everything I need right now for stills so I'm kind of set, but come to think of it, I guess Pentax does have some competition cause you can get into a Contax, some lenses and a decent back for 10k and it does some things the Pentax doesn't.

But of course there is no warranty.

Anyway thanks for all the info.

BC

[Radu Arama]

Hey James,

Lawyer yes, rich no. If you could talk our federal government into paying its prosecutors more, I'd be much obliged.

I agree that the 25mm looks like unique lens, and you're right that a lot in Japan might line up to buy it.  I was thinking more about their lens road-map.  A large part of the excitement around this system was financial accessibility. I just think the world has enough $4K lenses. If that's what they're proposing, I'm just not excited anymore. If I were shopping in this price-range, I'd likely drop the extra $2K for a Leica lens, which will be better and will never lose a dime in value.

Based on what I saw in studio with the 45-85, 75 and 120 yesterday, the only issue they have is focusing (not accuracy, but speed - the 35mms smoke the 645D, obviously). Sharpness is everything one could ask or need.

@Klaban: you don't think something this wide is a specialty lens? Ok, that's your view. It's just not something that the vast majority of photographers have regular call for. Make a top 100 landscape photos of all time list, and likely none (or a handful at most) will have been shot with anything this wide.

Also, I'm also not sure why you seem so eager to piss on my lawn at every opportunity. I haven't any idea who you are or how I have offended you.

- N.

I am sorry to say Nick but I don't agree with a lot of your arguments. First of all Pentax will not be able to provide the "financial accessibility" as they did in the analog years of medium format simply because the Yen won't allow it anymore. Consider the 400K Yen Japanese price list for the 25/4 and now convert it at 130 Yen per dollar (like it was in the late 90's) and it means under 3100 USD. At the current rate is something like 4700 USD.

Secondly the 25 mm will have about the same fov like the competition's 28 mm on 48x36 mm sensors. Compare the combinations (camera+lens)  and tell me how much cheaper should Pentax be to get to your target of "financial accessibility"?

Thirdly when you say "I'd likely drop the extra $2K for a Leica lens" I assume that you refer to a S2 lens so don't forget to drop 12K more for the body too.

Fourthly I am afraid that you're mistaken about the $4K lenses that will come in the future. I'd be extremely surprised if the 30-70 zoom won't cost at very least 6K USD and even more. After all it directly replaces two current zooms and indirectly (if it will be f4.5) at least the 35/3.5. That is a lot of bulk and a lot of money and if you won't need it maybe a lot of others will.

Finally the sharpness of most FA lenses could be fine on current sensor but are you sure that future bigger ones with greater pixel densities could be matched by those lenses (especially the 80's design of some zooms)?

Let me be clear I think Pentax should make new runs of most of the existing FA 645 lenses in the next two or three years as they are today but replace most (if not all of them) with 2010+ optical and mechanical designs. That flow of new lenses will benefit greatly the brand by attracting new (more price conscientious) users but to limit technically all new lenses in the name of a "people's medium format camera" mantra is IMO both economically suicidal for Pentax and a totally shame for such a prestigious optical outfit.

Regards,
Radu