Has anyone used the newer sinar ms backs ?

[henrikfoto]

Does anyone here have any experience with sinarback evolution 75 or 86?
These backs seems to never be mentioned when backs are discussed..

[Nick-T]

I think you'll find the Sinar guys hang out here:

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Cheers
Nick-T

[Dennis Carbo]

WOW - Thanks Nick !!! I have never seen that forum and and a sinar user !  TY 

[henrikfoto]

I think you'll find the Sinar guys hang out here:

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16

Cheers
Nick-T

As far as I can see from that forum is seems to be much old postings and not much activity...

[BJNY]

I've used eVolution 75H on Sinar p3.
I was told the 86H is just about to ship.

[henrikfoto]

I've used eVolution 75H on Sinar p3.
I was told the 86H is just about to ship.

What do you think about it?
Is there still any real differense between multishot and singleshot?

[rhsu]

What do you think about it?
Is there still any real differense between multishot and singleshot?

Colour sampling with four-shot MS is:
R = 100%
G = 200%
B = 100%
 
As opposed to one-shot sampling of:
R = 25%
G = 50%
B = 25%
 
The extra COLOUR RESOLUTION = better contour sharpness and truer/cleaner colours and neutrals.
 
There's no escaping the physics!

I don't own one but one chap I know has just got one.

[BJNY]

Sinar's integration and workflow are very tight, optimized for repro and still life work.
Also, their double cooling (fan and peltier) is unique.

Sure, there's a difference....crispness of details.....uninterpolated color.
For example, simple light to dark gradations are perfectly grey, without any random color pixels,
     but this may appeal only to pixelpeepers....unsure if the differences translate in printing.

[Nick-T]

What do you think about it?
Is there still any real differense between multishot and singleshot?

What Billy said
yes there is a distinct difference between single and multi-shot, especially for textiles, jewelry, Art repro and fine detailed subjects like whiskey bottles. The Sinar backs have an excellent reputation.
Nick-T

[yaya]

What do you think about it?
Is there still any real differense between multishot and singleshot?

In theory there is a difference,

in practice today's single-shot high resolution backs (80MP), in terms of image quality and colour they can match or surpass any multi-shot product while offering a much faster workflow and greater flexibility along with smaller RAW files and some substantial savings on shutter, bulbs and capacitors life...

[henrikfoto]

In theory there is a difference,

in practice today's single-shot high resolution backs (80MP), in terms of image quality and colour they can match or surpass any multi-shot product while offering a much faster workflow and greater flexibility along with smaller RAW files and some substantial savings on shutter, bulbs and capacitors life...

Is it correct that you work with Leaf?
I wonder if this has been tested in any way?

[yaya]

Is it correct that you work with Leaf?
I wonder if this has been tested in any way?

yes and yes

[henrikfoto]

yes and yes

Could you show us some testphotos? And tell us how the test was done?

[JonathanBenoit]

You can throw the Hasselblad MS backs into this as well. I havent seen a comparison between Sinar and Hasselblad, but I would reckon that Hasselblad would have the edge based on workflow.

Yair,
I would like to see actual pixel comparison with the Aptus II 12 and a 50mp multishot. Anyone who has seen single shot vs multi shot will have to see proof.

[BJNY]

Hasselblad multi-shot takes additional reference shot for total of 5 shots
whereas Sinar is actually 4 shots.

With Hasselblad H3/H4 multi-shot
one is able to remotely focus using controls in Phocus when tethered
GREAT for backeting focus --> Helicon.

Wish there was APO quality normal lens 70mm/80mm lens.

[michael]

Mark Dubovoy did a comparison between the P65+ and the Hasselblad 50 multishot last year. It seems that the theoretical advantages of multiple-shot backs are deminishing in significance.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/h3d50ii.shtml

[Dustbak]

Wish there was APO quality normal lens 70mm/80mm lens.

We have actually compared an AptusII 12 with some Schneider lenses to a Hasselblad 50MS with the HCD35-90 (amongst others). Hasselblad's HCD35-90 is practically on par with the Schneider LS lenses in the same range.

In the same comparison we actually found that beginning at 80MP you have to really look hard to find things that are better done with 50MS. 50MS is clearly better than 60MP single shot but starting from 80MP things begin to change.

[henrikfoto]

We have actually compared an AptusII 12 with some Schneider lenses to a Hasselblad 50MS with the HCD35-90 (amongst others). Hasselblad's HCD35-90 is practically on par with the Schneider LS lenses in the same range.

In the same comparison we actually found that beginning at 80MP you have to really look hard to find things that are better done with 50MS. 50MS is clearly better than 60MP single shot but starting from 80MP things begin to change.

That is really interesting! But how does the Hasselblad ms compare to Sinar ms.
I would guess Sinar is a bit ahead since that has been their main business for a long time.

[Nick-T]

Henrik I don't think Sinar would have much of an edge, Imacon were doing Multi-shot right back when they started so the have plenty of experience. I believe Sinar do have a very good live Video solution but have never used it.

FYI the article referenced by Michael above is IMO very flawed, anyone with experience of multi-shot would find the conclusions impossible to accept. Rays conclusions will be spot on as he is a long-time multi-shot user.

Nick-T

[EricWHiss]

I'll jump in to back up Nick as I also find the article linked to be in question.  I believe it was discussed on the forums in the past when it first was posted.  I have to say that I was disappointed by the lack of real  science to that comparison. It seemed a very perfunctory opinion was rendered, and one that I found strange having worked with the MS backs myself as well as with the Phocus software.  Many of the subsequent articles by the same author, such as the Imageprint one, come across as a late night sales pitch and I tend to take them as such  - more of an infomercial than real conclusive data.  IMHO and YMMV.

I did see the files from the 50MS vs Aptus 12 comparison Dustback did and can say that its hard to pick a winner. The 50MS shots are crisper but the Aptus 12 did get as much detail and did so in a single frame.  I don't think its conclusive because the differences in the lenses could swing the results either way.  I don't know if other shots were set up to evaluate color tonality or accuracy, depth or DR  but I could not make a judgement from the files I saw.  Anyhow its really close now.