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Author Topic: Nikon 24 PCE  (Read 10923 times)

davekx

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Nikon 24 PCE
« on: February 02, 2011, 08:45:38 AM »

What is involved and the cost to have the Nikon 24 tilt shift lens modified to have the two axis move independently does it void the warranty on the lens?
Is this lens regarded as highly as the Canon 24 TSE II?
When will the recently announced Schneider R tilt shift lenses be released?

Thanks....Dave



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PeterAit

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 11:13:32 AM »

The change is free if done by Nikon during the warranty period. Be sure to send a copy of your receipt with the lens-I neglected to and got caught in some bureaucratic maze.
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langier

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 03:50:07 PM »

IF you are comfortable with a cross-point screw driver, fully sober, have a well-lighted work area and use a tray to catch the stray screws, you can do this yourself in less than 5 minutes.

There are four screws on the back corners of the widest part of the lens. Take all four out and "carefully" rotate 90 degrees (can't really remember which way to rotate, other than the ribbon cable is the key). Once rotated, carefully put the screws back in and tighten with your cross-point.

Of course, your results may vary and you are on your own if you screw-up or loose your screws, but as far as a mod/fix/repair, it's super simple and quick. I'd do it in your studio and never in the field unless I was total desperate to have both a rise and a swing.

For me, I generally use this lens and my 85 PC with the rise-fall and tilt, seldom at the 90-degree factory default.
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Larry Angier
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Kirk Gittings

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2011, 03:53:33 PM »

Quote
Is this lens regarded as highly as the Canon 24 TSE II?

Not quite. I have tested both and the Canon has a slight edge. Besides that the Canon can shift axis' on the fly
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langier

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2011, 10:57:04 PM »

Even though Canon may have a slight edge and on-the-fly axis twist, Nikon's 24PCE is still a great lens!
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happyman

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2011, 09:03:29 AM »

The Nikon lens is way better then the Canon: sharpness, flare, CA
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Kirk Gittings

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2011, 10:35:36 AM »

The Nikon lens is way better then the Canon: sharpness, flare, CA


Not in the samples I tested. Not against the new Canon.
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MrSmith

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2011, 03:15:38 PM »

the Nikon really must be something extra special, seeing as the canon is merely 'special' ::)
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Tony Beach

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2011, 02:29:03 PM »

Modifying a PC-E lens costs about $125 at a Nikon Service center.  On the 24/3.5 you can do it yourself because the ribbon in the lens is just long enough to reach 90, but on the 45/2.8 you will have to send it in to have it done.  As for the warranty, I would presume that if you send the lens in for a warranty covered issue and you modified it yourself, you could just return it to its original position and avoid any issues.  The worse case scenario is that you have to pay for the the ribbon being severed or the screws being stripped, but if it is something else then Nikon should fix it if it is in fact covered by the warranty.

As for the Schneider's, they look like they will spank Nikon and Canon, but the Super Angulon 28/2.8 PC (which has been out for some time now) does not have tilt and the 50mm and 90mm lens are going to be a lot more expensive than the Nikon or Canon options.
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JeffKohn

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2011, 04:26:12 PM »

Here's a guide with step-by-step pictures for modifying the 24 PC-E, it really is quite easy.

Quote
As for the Schneider's, they look like they will spank Nikon and Canon, but the Super Angulon 28/2.8 PC (which has been out for some time now) does not have tilt and the 50mm and 90mm lens are going to be a lot more expensive than the Nikon or Canon options.
The Schneider 28 PC Super-Angulon is a dud optically. I paid full retail for this overpriced lens (special order from B&H) literally weeks before Nikon announced the 24 PC-E and 45 PC-E. Biggest regret of any camera-related purchase I've ever made. So I won't be assuming that the new Schneider lenses spank anything until I see detailed reviews from trusted sources.

Kirk Gittings

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2011, 05:08:47 PM »

Here's a guide with step-by-step pictures for modifying the 24 PC-E, it really is quite easy.
The Schneider 28 PC Super-Angulon is a dud optically. I paid full retail for this overpriced lens (special order from B&H) literally weeks before Nikon announced the 24 PC-E and 45 PC-E. Biggest regret of any camera-related purchase I've ever made. So I won't be assuming that the new Schneider lenses spank anything until I see detailed reviews from trusted sources.

Yes, I was going to say.......don't assume because It is a Schneider that it is a great lens, they have made PC lenses in the past that were expensive and stunk!
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uaiomex

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2011, 05:36:10 PM »

Under current technologies producing substantially better lenses than latest Canon TS's would make them prohibitory. I think they are as good as is possible right now for a commercial success. IMHO.
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Tony Beach

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2011, 08:23:09 PM »

The Schneider 28 PC Super-Angulon is a dud optically. I paid full retail for this overpriced lens (special order from B&H) literally weeks before Nikon announced the 24 PC-E and 45 PC-E. Biggest regret of any camera-related purchase I've ever made. So I won't be assuming that the new Schneider lenses spank anything until I see detailed reviews from trusted sources.

You must have gotten a bad copy and I'm sorry that you experienced that; my copy is not a dud and I also owned the Nikkor 24/3.5 PC-E.  On the Nikkor I could find poor corners using extreme shifts on my D300 (which didn't even utilize the entire image circle), whereas on the Schneider the corners hold up better at the edges of the image circle.  The main reason I would say the 50mm and 90mm lenses will spank their Canon and Nikon counterparts (and especially the Nikon ones I regret to say) is that they have a tripod mount on them, the functions can each rotate 360 independently of one another, and if the resolution and micro-contrast I get from my 28mm PC is any indication then the optics will be exceptional.  Another thing I look forward to (but am not certain about yet) is that on my 28 PC I can change mounts and match the lens to my Sony A850, a Nikon F mount, or a Canon EOS mount; I'm hoping this will also be the case for the 50mm and 90mm Schneiders, and that will make them a slam-dunk for me.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 08:24:52 PM by Tony Beach »
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tesfoto

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 04:52:11 AM »

The Nikon lens is way better then the Canon: sharpness, flare, CA


I tested the lenses and my findings are:

The Nikon was about the same center sharpness as the Canon TS-E (old version) but was way better in the corner sharpness.

The Nikon 24PCE is a very good lens.

Then Canon came out with the TS-E II and this lens is way better in sharpness, flare and CA.

I know of architectural photographers changing system from Nikon to Canon due to the new 17 and 24.

My take is that Nikon (D3X) produces better files than Canon 1DsMKII and 5DII, but the 17 and 24 lenses are game changers for architectural photographers.

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Rob C

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2011, 05:03:18 AM »

Years ago, when the 28mm Schneider shifter came out, it was reviewed in the BJP and given a very positive rating. Its competition, in my world, was the Nikkor, and according to the reviewer, Nikon didn't quite reach the parts that Schneider could. Schneider also made other great optics for Leica: the 21mm Super Angulon was much rated in its day, too.

This thing about 'bad' copies is something for which manufacturers have only themselves to blame. In my active days I can't remember having even heard of a dud Nikkor; today, I find that even I had the misfortune to buy one such new one - that damn 2.8/24-70mm which I did manage to dispose of back to the shop, but only because I took a new 2.8/180 its place. I have hardly used the latter, despite liking longish lenses, but that's my problem and not Nikon's.

The problem goes beyond one dud lens: once you have had the bad, expensive experience, you distrust everything that comes from that maker. To lose that much goodwill is industrial suicide: how come they don't see this for themselves? Do they bank on other marques' disillusioned people changing over for more of the same, a constant turnover of angry owners drifing from one make to the other in a futile search for something that's honest? The solution/salvation is so simple: proper final inspection of every unit. From my first new F in the 60s to last year's disaster I would have sworn by Nikon; not anymore.

Rob C
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 05:07:15 AM by Rob C »
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kers

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2011, 06:52:28 AM »

You must have gotten a bad copy and I'm sorry that you experienced that; my copy is not a dud and I also owned the Nikkor 24/3.5 PC-E.  On the Nikkor I could find poor corners using extreme shifts on my D300 (which didn't even utilize the entire image circle), whereas on the Schneider the corners hold up better at the edges of the image circle.

I am using the 24PCE now for almost a year and it took me a while how to get everything sharp even in the corners when fully shifted.
Now I use this method and it works:  use f9- or fully shifted f11  and check with this lensopening the sharpness with Live-view. I am shure your results will become better...
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Tony Beach

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2011, 11:22:48 AM »

I wrote:
...I also owned the Nikkor 24/3.5 PC-E.  On the Nikkor I could find poor corners using extreme shifts on my D300 (which didn't even utilize the entire image circle), whereas on the Schneider the corners hold up better at the edges of the image circle.

I am using the 24PCE now for almost a year and it took me a while how to get everything sharp even in the corners when fully shifted.
Now I use this method and it works:  use f9- or fully shifted f11  and check with this lensopening the sharpness with Live-view. I am shure your results will become better...

Sounds like a kludge solution to me.  Are you proposing that I focus on the edges to the detriment of where I might otherwise want my focus to be?  FWIW, I was shooting f/13 at infinity on targets that were at infinity and the level of smearing at the extreme edges of the image circle as recorded on my D300 were really quite bad.  It's possible I got a "dud" copy though, but getting the far edges of such a large image circle is always going to be problematic on such a wide angle lens.

I don't have the 24 PC-E anymore, in part because I use an A850 and that Nikkor will not work on it.  As I said before, if the Schneiders have interchangeable mounts, this will make them hugely appealing to me for that very reason.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 11:25:25 AM by Tony Beach »
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Kirk Gittings

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2011, 03:13:40 PM »

I tested the lenses and my findings are:

The Nikon was about the same center sharpness as the Canon TS-E (old version) but was way better in the corner sharpness.

The Nikon 24PCE is a very good lens.

Then Canon came out with the TS-E II and this lens is way better in sharpness, flare and CA.

I know of architectural photographers changing system from Nikon to Canon due to the new 17 and 24.

My take is that Nikon (D3X) produces better files than Canon 1DsMKII and 5DII, but the 17 and 24 lenses are game changers for architectural photographers.



FWIW I have no brand loyalty or silly romantic notions of long term brand superiority. Ultimately they are just slightly better or worse hammers and in two years the leader position will switch. Anyone could do a decent job these days shooting architecture with Canon or Nikon. All the above quoted points reflect my experience, I almost switched to NiKon for the DX3 and PCE lenses, but before I did Canon came out with their new T/S lenses. Ideally I would like the Nikon body and Canon lenses, but probably by next year the Canon bodies will get there too. I personally follow the glass and let the bodies catch up.
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Nacnud

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2011, 06:59:28 AM »

Sounds like a kludge solution to me.  Are you proposing that I focus on the edges to the detriment of where I might otherwise want my focus to be?
Kers experience matches mine....
I've got both the MkI and MkII Canon 24mm TS-E and often get apparent corner softness when centre focussing.
I also sort it out by increasing DoF and tweaking focus.

I believe the focal plane is spherical, not flat - it's part of the Tilt/Shift design.
Hence when shooting a flat surface (like a building), the corners cannot be sharp unless DoF and focussing take this into account.

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adammork

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Re: Nikon 24 PCE
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2011, 08:56:52 AM »

I know of architectural photographers changing system from Nikon to Canon due to the new 17 and 24.

My take is that Nikon (D3X) produces better files than Canon 1DsMKII and 5DII, but the 17 and 24 lenses are game changers for architectural photographers.

I'm one of those who changed system.... The D3X have a better file, by a fair margin, but those two new TS-E lenses are just so fantastic! - so are the old 90mm, but the 45mm kind of sucks.

Like Kirk, my dream would be the D3X body with the Canon TS-E's and the Canon way of live view (and Olympus's anti dust system, for making the dream complete....)

/adam

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