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Author Topic: Radius slider in detail panel  (Read 1823 times)

jaapb

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Radius slider in detail panel
« on: January 25, 2011, 01:25:04 am »

Hi all,

Having learned a lot from and being enthused greatly by the Lula videos there is one thing I can't get my head around, even after reading Jeff Schewe's newest Camera Raw book.
I am having trouble using the radius control in the detail panel. I understand the concept of the relationship between edge contrast and radius (i think) and that one needs low radius settings when sharpening images with intricate detail and higher (1+) for smooth images like portriats.
Here is the thing, when I try to judge the effect of the radius slider visually (with or without option key) it looks to my eye that running the radius up makes the image more crisp en lowering the radius smoothens the image. So I am inclined to use the control the other way round. This confuses me.
I now just use a preset of radius .8 for landscape and 1.4 for smooth images (lots of sky or faces) and 1 for inbetweenies and not proofing radius visually as opposed to the other sharpening controls, Being quite picky on image quality I need to get back to using radius correctly.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Jaap

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Schewe

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Re: Radius slider in detail panel
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2011, 06:13:43 pm »

Here is the thing, when I try to judge the effect of the radius slider visually (with or without option key) it looks to my eye that running the radius up makes the image more crisp en lowering the radius smoothens the image. So I am inclined to use the control the other way round. This confuses me.

If you don't alter the Amount, yes, increasing the radius slider will give the appearance of more sharpening in obvious edges but at the risk of over sharpening. Reducing the radius concentrates the sharpening to the high frequencies and with not adjustment to the Amount ends up looking like less sharpening.

In practice all three slider; Amount, Radius & Detail need to be adjusted properly to get the optimal sharpening without introducing additional problems or artifacts...Edge Masking (even a small amount) can help reduce the sharpening applied to large surface areas particularly where noise would be visible.

But, the other critical sharpening slider setting is the Luminance Noise Reduction. Noise reduction comes into play when you are applying strong amounts with a higher detail setting. Adding a touch of noise reduction allows you to go into the amount and use higher detail settings.

And, of course, this is all dependent on the image source and content and ISO.

The other thing to remember is that for ACR 6.x, the Adjustment Brush can also play a role...the current behavior of minus sharpening is to add to the edge mask when below zero and above -50. So, if all other settings are right for an image but some areas are showing too much amount, paining in a minus sharpening can have the effect of adding to the edge mask-note, this works even when you don't have an edge mask set in the Detail panel. You can also use the Auto Mask function of the Adjustment brush to localize the minus sharpening by tone and color.

Your basic approach to setting up some general presets is fine...when it comes down to "perfecting an image" you are right that radius is an important factor, but so are all the other things I mention above. Without actually seeing an image, I couldn't tell you whether .8 would be better/worse than .7 or .9. I tend to go lower than .8 for high frequency edged images but 1.4 seems fine for people and faces...a radius of 1.0 really isn't bad for either edge types...which is why Thomas settled on that as the Default.
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jaapb

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Re: Radius slider in detail panel
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2011, 09:25:26 am »

Thank you Jeff for your detailed answer, much appreciated.
I always approached the ACR and LR capture sharpening workflow by working the sliders top down and getting back to the individual sliders for fine tuning in which in my mind the radius slider was a bit less usefull when judged visually. I have set noise reduction as a per ISO default.
I ll get myself to practice on some high frequency files I ve already done to see if i can get some better results when reducing the radius even more and increasing the Amount mitagated or enhanced with Detail/Masking while keeping a close eye on noise reduction.

Jaap
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Radius slider in detail panel
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2011, 11:58:50 am »

Jeff does a nice job demonstrating the new sharpening tools in the LuLa LR3 video tutorial.
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jaapb

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Re: Radius slider in detail panel
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2011, 01:17:44 pm »

Thanks Alan,

I enjoyed and learned a lot from the LuLa LR videos from LR1 through LR3 (and also from the other video tutorials for that matter) and it is very much clear that Jeff is an industry expert and highly regarded contributor. It is always a bit different when you see things done in a tutorial and then try it yourself. I think that all of us have our moments of revisiting files and redoing some of them to make them even better. It is always a great joy to me to see the before and after view in ACR or LR and seeing how much potential there still is in the raws. I just redid a bunch of "old" Canon G5 CRW raws and it is just unbelievable how much better they look developed in LR3.
Lets just not forget to go out and take pictures (no JPEGS)

Jaap
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