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Author Topic: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?  (Read 8102 times)

Tulear

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5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« on: January 18, 2011, 08:21:03 pm »

Hi Everyone;

While a long time 'looker' on LL, this is my first post.  I now shoot mostly while traveling (streets, landscape, architecture) recording where we go, and occasionally birds at close fairly close range.  I am a long time hobbyist, I appreciate good gear, I enjoy working at taking the best images I can -

I have had a 5D for a few years, along with a few pieces of L glass: 17-40, 24-70, 70-200 2.8 IS, 1.4X and 2.0X tele's and then there's the niffty 50, 580EX, yada yada and yada.   At given times I have really enjoyed using the system.  Pretty much all the time I have really not enjoyed schlepping the kit as I have come to realize that my sherpa DNA has pretty much left me.   

So, I am pretty much at the point where I think a change is needed.  Like many of you I have 'evolved' before like from range-finders to Nikon SLR gear, off Nikon to a few Pentax 645's.  Moving from medium format to digital 7- 8 years ago and to full frame the last few years.  Times change, needs evolve yet again and now I want to go to a lighter, easier to carry kit - while not trading off too much IQ. 

As a dabble I bought a GF1 with EVF, pancake and 14-45 a year or so ago for my wife (cha!) and find it fun and enjoyable from a packaging POV.  Images are acceptable - few really striking however certainly not at the same ratio as the 5D w/L glass.  I like the rangefinder format from a weight, handling and carry-ease perspective.  I have used them in the past, and have no challenge with the camera format. 

I am trying to flip my Canon gear to a 'new' system inside of the approx. $6K ish I figure I can get for it.  So I thought a Leica M8 or M8.2 with a lens or two - maybe one of them off brand.   I know the '8's' have their issues and limitations and have difficulty assessing whether I would find them an issue for me.  The GH2 has also interested me in that IQ seems pretty good, the video would be an interesting add on.   It has also cross my mind that  I could have a full Panny system with maybe 3 smallish, light lenses, be able to carry it without a sherpa license and maybe have some loonies left over.  But what of the IQ?  Running two systems is not an option I would consider. 

Experience and advice from others who may have made a transition to lighter easier to travel with system from a crop DSLR or full frame would be appreciated. 
 
RM


« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 12:08:38 am by Tulear »
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John Camp

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2011, 12:49:34 am »

I schlepped a Nikon system around much of the world for two decades, and while I appreciated its qualities, I now mostly just shoot for myself. When I made that transition, one of my first priorities was finding a lighter system. I tried a Leica M8, and though I had most of the fast lenses, I found that it didn't really suit me in the end. The long end was a 135mm (effectively a 180 with the M8's crop factor) and it was essentially a low ISO camera -- you start to run into deteriorating images at about ISO800. I never went above 400. Some of that is made up by the fast glass, but the fast glass is terribly expensive. On the other end, macro work is difficult because of parallax problems. I think you could pretty much forget bird shooting with an M8...Going back to the cost of the glass, I got a check for about $25,000 from the consignment company when I sold mine off. For $6,000, you could expect a used 8.2 body and one used lens.

After the adventure with the Leica, I stayed with Nikon for a while, shooting a D3 and a D300, which are a nice pair, but heavy. I then tried the m4/3, eventually buying three cameras. I can get all three cameras -- a GF1, a GH1 and a GH2, two chargers (the GH2 and the other G cameras used different sized batteries), four lenses, and the ancillary equipment in a briefcase. One thing I *really* like about the GH cameras is the twistable LCD. You can almost use them like a Rolleiflex. Or, if you're trying to be somewhat covert, you can actually shoot backwards, if you know what I mean...point the lens in one direction, while you are looking at the LCD in a different direction. You can get along quite well with three lenses, that will take you out to an effective 600mm. They are really good cameras. But: the IQ is not what you'd get from a FF or a Leica 8.2. The sensor size is about 1/4 of FF, about half of an APS-C. From reading this forum, I believe that Michael Reichmann is spending the winter in Mexico, and took along nothing but a Panasonic GH system.

Still looking, I mostly recently tried a Pentax K5, and I think I will be there for a while. It's notably smaller than the Nikon system, and the lenses are smaller, too. It is fully weather sealed, has really good high ISO performance, has an effective 16mp sensor, and a decent lens selection. For the size of photos I print, I don't lose much to FF. Although it is notably lighter than the Nikon, it is also notably heavier than the GH2.

Overall, I guess I'd suggest that you look at the Panasonics, but also at some APS-C cameras. Most of them are pretty big, but a few are very good but quite compact. If you don't need really big prints (bigger than 19") and do a lot of hard traveling, I'd pick up a couple of GH2s, or a GH2 and a GF1 with the optional clip-on finder, three or four lenses, and call it a day. You could easily put all of that in a small briefcase. By the way, Voightlander now offers an m4/3 mount 25mm (effectively 50mm) manual f0.95 lens that supposedly works well with the Panasonic. That's as fast as camera lenses get. Image quality is supposed to be good, and the price is unbeatable at $900.

JC
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2011, 05:07:24 am »

There are certainly many options to choose from these days, and it is now possible to get excellent image quality from the "large sensor small camera" market. I think the 5D itself is not that big (I have a 5DMKII and 50D), your problem with weight is all the L glass, which is heavy. But if you mount a small and light prime on your 5D, all of a sudden things change. Have you considered such an option? Say a 5D plus 24 2.8, 28 1.8, 35 2 primes? Granted, the "cheap" Canon primes are not in the same league as the L primes, but they are quite good, and will be better than a micro 4/3 or mirrorless APS-C camera.

It really depends on your shooting style, but a 5D plus 2 or 3 light prime lenses is very easy to carry on a small shoulder bag, or small backpack. I can share my experience with you; my main kit is the 5DMKII plus the 24-70L. Now, I travel a lot in business, and normally have a couple of hours a day that I can spare to go out and do some photography. For this, I do not carry the kit I have mentioned, but rather the 50D plus the 28 1.8. This gives me a light kit, high quality, and easy to carry in a shoulder bag, together with other bits and bobs.

stever

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011, 10:04:38 am »

i travel with a 5D2 and feel some of your pain, but not so much as to give up the kind of images a ff can produce (with room for cropping)

you certainly can save weight on lenses even without going to all primes.  the 24-70 and 70-200 f2.8 are very heavy lenses.  a lot of weight can be saved by switching to the 24-105 and 70-200 f4.  i often find myself not carrying the 17-40, so i got a Voigtlander 20 which doesn't weigh much and takes up little space in the bag or pocket (and has the IQ as the 17-40).

my "lightweight" lens kit is the Voigtlander 20, 24-105, 50 1.4, and 200 2.8 (but the 70-200 f4 may be a better choice)
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Tulear

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011, 10:39:51 am »

Thank you all for your input. It helps to me to crystalize the key choices and decision points I need to consider.

We travel a fair amount now and expect to increase travel over the coming years (equities and bonds willing).  Our travel mantra is that it won't fit in one carry on - it ain't making the trip.  We are very active when we get where we are going with lots of hiking and exploration. 

Last year on a 3 week Tuscany/Sardinia wander about, my wife pointed out that the camera gear was not adhering to the baggage rule...particularly with the Gitzo strapped to my large Kata back pack.  I actually lost 10 lbs. over three weeks of hill town exploration, all the while eating and drinking as if food and wine were about to be forever banned.

The prime strategy on my current body is worth exploring.  It is true that my dissatisfaction relatesmto the 2.8L glass.  I have had the f4 70-200 L and traded up to the 2.8 for the bokeh and to standardize my filter set to a single diameter.  In reality, I seldom print to anything much above 14", I don't shoot to crop later unless I absolutely have to. 

John, have you tried any of the M mount lenses on your GH2 like a Voigtlander?

I wonder if the IQ limitation (from a purely technical point of view) on the Panasonic gear is the sensor due to the crop and implementation......or is there more IQ available from these systems through the wider range of prime M optics out there (3rd party and used Leica being the reasonable alternative). 
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John Camp

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2011, 02:06:24 pm »

John, have you tried any of the M mount lenses on your GH2 like a Voigtlander?
I wonder if the IQ limitation (from a purely technical point of view) on the Panasonic gear is the sensor due to the crop and implementation......or is there more IQ available from these systems through the wider range of prime M optics out there (3rd party and used Leica being the reasonable alternative). 


Yes. When I first got the GH1, I bought an M adapter and used it with both the 135 and the Noctilux. The Nocti became an effective 100 mm f1.0. The most interesting thing about it was the focus: I got a lot more sharply-focused hits with the GH1 that with the Leica, because you could use the LCD to make sure you had critical focus. With the Leica, it was hit or miss -- it's very hard to get critical focus, or at least, it was for me. The plane of focus is so thin, wide open, that the eyes would be in focus, but the nose would not...or, more often, for me, vice-versa:some part of the nose would look great, but the eyes would be out. The 135 was even better -- you could actually see what you were doing, not the case with the rangefinder. Don't get me wrong, I did like the Leica okay, but its natural range of lenses, IMHO, is from wide angle through "normal." Anything past 75mm got difficult. On the other hand, the whole process with the Panasonics was pretty slow -- this is not a walk-and-shoot system. It would take quite a while to make a shot with the Nocti, although, I didn't do it often enough to be really practiced. Shooting with the rangefinder, if less accurate, was at least pretty fast.

As far as IQ is involved, I really do think it involves sensor size more than anything. Some of the Panasonic glass seems really good. I'm not sure why IQ seems a notch lower than with APS-C or FF, because in terms of mps/resolution, they are about on a par with the other systems (the GH2 has an effective 16mp.) With a 14-inch print, I don't think you'd see much difference. I mostly hand-hold with the GH cameras, so don't really have experience with them on tripods. I figure if I'm going to carry a tripod, I've already committed to a certain amount of donkey work and certain IQ expectations, so I might as well go with the bigger sensors.

I still travel by air quite a bit, and the Panasonics have become my go-to system. Go to a camera store and look at both the GF1 and the GH2, and think about them as a system. They are quite different in size, but use the same lenses. So you can travel with a backup body, and not be crippled by either weight, or by a breakdown or theft in one body. When I'm traveling by car, I take the Panasonic system, but also, now, the Pentax. The Nikons have been getting a lot less work.

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Ken Bennett

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 05:11:29 pm »

I have two complete Canon systems for work (one that is owned by my employer, and one personal set.) They are great, but not what I want to haul around when I travel. Too big and heavy.

I've been very happy with the image quality from the GF1 and the G1. My wife and I have the two cameras, a 14, 20, 14-45, and 45-200 to share between the two of us. At some point I'll add another camera, since I like shooting with two cameras, and maybe a fast 50 with an adapter. This entire kit fits in a small waist pack for packing, and then gets distributed into our shoulder bags for carrying and shooting during the day. (Not big camera bags, just small courier-type bags.) Love the size and weight, and I get great prints on my Epson 3800.

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NigelC

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2011, 06:12:52 pm »

I'm in something like same boat. and was completely committed to getting GH2, 14-140, 20/1.7 and Oly 9-18. (Upside was relegating 5D2 to "non-walk around" justified getting Zeiss 35/2 and planned Zeiss 21 or Canon 24TSE).

Announcement of 600D with articulated screen made neme pause, especially as I'm about 10% video and 90% stills. Of course my local camera shop, Jacobs in Leicester (UK) doesn't have one but putting a 550/15-85 alongside a GH2/14-140, there's not that much in it in weight and size. Zoom both out and they are about same length. Then occurred to me stupis to sell 24-105 to buy 15-85, so my plan is to get a 600D, us it with my 24-105 as a walkabout (I can stick a 50/2.5 on it to make it really small) and then get a 10-22 to cover the wide end (significantly lighter than than Sigma and Tokina alternatives and takes same lens hood as 17-40). One downside is don't think canon can match Panasonic for AF during video, butthen video is not my main concern.
Advantages as I see it are:

1. 600D will take all my existing lenses
2. Better image quality of APS-C over M4/3
3. Although EVF is improved in GH2, still prefer optical finder.
4. Familiarity of menus etc.
5. Acts as back-up body
6. 300+1.4 on 600D  = nearly 700mm. There is also a digital zoom facility in the 600D which sounds similiar to the facility in the GH2.
7. Cheaper! 
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NigelC

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2011, 02:57:39 am »

Quick follow up tp previous comments. Having now tried my 24-105 on a 550D, standing in for as yet unavailable 600D, it just doesn't work; a) lens overbalances body; b) doesn't work for unobtrusive street "I'm just a tourist taking casual snaps" shooting - people see the lens, not the smaller body. So GH2 with 14-140 it is, probvably with a 20/1.7 for low light. I can live with 1600ASA, if not 3200. 
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kevk

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2011, 08:45:26 pm »

Did you try the 550D with the kit 18-55 ? This is small and light with OK quality. (This is what I use when leaving behind the 40D with 24-105)

Kevin
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feppe

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2011, 09:08:35 pm »

I've moved from 30D to 450D to 550D, and got tired of hauling the big camera and heavy lenses around while traveling. For those who say it's not so bad, I'm sure you don't backpack or travel by motorcycle. Bought Oly E-PL1 a year ago, and haven't looked back. I can fit the entire MFT kit with 4 lenses and accessories, and a Gitzo traveler tripod in a standard carry-on and have room left for clothes for a 5-day business trip, including gym clothes. Selling my APS-C kit soon.

E-PL1 reportedly has a weaker low-pass filter than most cameras, and the IQ is very good up to 13x19" (haven't tried bigger), comparable to APS-C Canon. Lenses make a huge difference, the Oly kit 14-42mm is crap, while the Panny 14-45mm is ok. The 7-14mm Panny is outstanding (and expensive), as is the 20mm pancake - the 17mm pancake not so much, but haven't tried it myself.

Oly is announcing a "pro" level body in a month or two, presumably with a new sensor. Also, Zeiss, Schneider and Sigma have recently announced they'll be making lenses for MFT, so selection should get considerably better.

Tim Gray

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2011, 08:41:19 am »

I have all the canon big stuff - 1ds3 and all the zooms from sigma 12-24 up to the 100-400 and the 300 2.8 prime, big tripod big head etc etc.

I currently have a GH1 and a Gh2 has been on back order for over a month, along with the 150-300 and Voigtlander 25mm .9.I haven't really had a chance to try the lenses I already have - 7-14, 14-140, Zeiss 50 1.5 with adapter and the 45mm 2.8 panasonic macro.  I did do some macro shots on the weekend with the 45 2.8 at the Toronto Orchid show and was really happy.  Once it warms up a bit and I can get outside I'll give the camera and lenses more of a workout - if it performs the way I hope, I don't think I'll necessarily sell the canon, but will probably get off the upgrade cycle.  I expect the Gh2 to print well at 13x19, but I print as large as 17x25 and that will be the test.

Here are a couple of macro's from the weekend.
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Plekto

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2011, 12:54:52 pm »

The Olympus PEN system is quite nice, though it is a bit lacking if you need a full range of lenses and so on.(but it's perfect for trips).  It is better than the Sony attempt to do the same thing, though.  Love the look and feel, but the Sony optics are kind of meh for the price. And wow does Sony charge for their logo...

You might look at the Samsung clone of the Leica that came out last year as well.  Leica is nice, but not worth the extra money for that red dot if it's all coming from the same places overseas.   14MP and small - the NX100 looks like a good contender as well.  It hits the sweet spot of replacing film yet being small like an old 35mm camera. 

The Olympus E series is also quite small - at maybe 1.5 lbs with a small lens attached.  IMO, the trick really is to find a good pancake lens and get whatever camera works with it. 

Lastly, the Canon G series is also nice - almost toy like in size.  But the old-school knobs make for a very nice experience on trips(my uncle has one).  Being able to push the ISO settings a stop or two in a second is something that I miss from my old film cameras.  Being able to not have to go through half a dozen menus like on a typical DSLR is also nice.  It's inexpensive and works well.  It's NG for filming or action shots and the like, but for a trip or walking around town, it's great.
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douglasf13

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2011, 03:28:54 pm »

  I sold all of my fullframe and aps-c DSLR gear after using the NEX-5 for a couple of months.  I've got a bunch of rangefinder glass that I use on it, and the Sony 16mm/2.8 is better than expected (especially if you crop it very slightly to give a 27mm equiv. field of view.)  For those that don't want to loose AF, there is a AF Zeiss 24mm in NEX mount coming soon, as well as a Sony 30mm, 50mm and a 55-200 zoom.  Next year, a wide angle zoom, tele prime and a high end standard zoom are coming.

  The lack of an EVF has been my main complaint with the system, but the flip up LCD is great and high res, and the Clearviewer has really replaced most need of an EVF for me.
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marcmccalmont

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2011, 08:31:24 pm »

Here is my 5DII vs. K5/18-135
Marc
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Marc McCalmont

Tulear

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2011, 12:16:40 am »

As the initiator I thought I would update. 

I have sold the heavy glass (well relatively heavy) 2.8 24-70 and 70-200 IS, and both TC's.  This will fund the GH2 w/14-140 and a 100-300, a pany flash and some SD cards to add to my GF1, 20mm and 14-45.  I have decide to hold on to the 5D w/ 17-40L and a nifty 50 until I am convinced.   I will then either ditch the rest of the 5D system or if staying w/Canon, pick up a 24-105 which is much lighter than the 24-70. 

Of course now the GH2 is sold out everywhere until May!!!   So maybe while I wait I'll take the money down to the casino and see if I can turn it into an M9 with a Tri-Elmar.   Hmmmm, that would likely end up with me having a two lens Canon system.

Thanks again for sharing experiences....if you hear of a pool of GH2's showing up somewhere drop me a note.
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marcmccalmont

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2011, 01:23:40 am »

As the initiator I thought I would update. 

I have sold the heavy glass (well relatively heavy) 2.8 24-70 and 70-200 IS, and both TC's.  This will fund the GH2 w/14-140 and a 100-300, a pany flash and some SD cards to add to my GF1, 20mm and 14-45.  I have decide to hold on to the 5D w/ 17-40L and a nifty 50 until I am convinced.   I will then either ditch the rest of the 5D system or if staying w/Canon, pick up a 24-105 which is much lighter than the 24-70. 

Of course now the GH2 is sold out everywhere until May!!!   So maybe while I wait I'll take the money down to the casino and see if I can turn it into an M9 with a Tri-Elmar.   Hmmmm, that would likely end up with me having a two lens Canon system.

Thanks again for sharing experiences....if you hear of a pool of GH2's showing up somewhere drop me a note.

Why not look at the K5 better image quality than the GH2?
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Marc McCalmont

Justinr

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2011, 04:04:51 am »

Why not look at the K5 better image quality than the GH2?

I'm in no position to judge the K5's merits against those of the GH2 never having used that model, but what I can say is that the Pentax has mightily impressed in the short time that I have had one. Well worth a look.

This shot was taken at a charity fashion show last night with the Pentax 18-135mm, iso 1,600.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 11:12:08 am by Justinr »
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eronald

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Re: 5D system transitioning to something lighter - GH2? M8.2?
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2011, 12:40:02 am »

I have a 5D II and a 50/1.8 and I will usually drop that into the bag when I go on a trip. It takes decent images and is fairly light.

Edmund
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