Will the Hasselblad HTS do the job as good as a tecnical camera like Arca swiss?

[henrikfoto]

I am about to order an Arca Swiss Rm3d. In the last minute I was looking at the Hasselblad HTS.
Woult it do the job just as good for landscape-work?

[Doug Peterson]

In my experience there is no SLR camera system you can buy which will outperform the quality of Schneider/Rodenstock glass on a tech camera. I would say the same thing if you asked to compare a tech camera with any other product (Phase/Leaf/Contax/Mamiya/Rollei etc).

This is primarily because of the optics when using a tech camera:
- very high quality lenses to start with
- the lenses are not restricted in design by a mirror box (very important aspect of wide angle lens design)
- no added optical elements to accomplish the tilt/shift
- lenses are used at their original magnification
- some lenses have very generous image circles (thought to be fair some barely cover the sensor)

Also a consideration: you can buy lenses all the way down to 23mm in the Tech camera world. The HTS has a magnification factor (for single frames - you can stitch to reacquire some or most of the wideness of the lens when stitching is possible) and only goes down to 28mm (which is a 42mm with an HTS). If you need (or might ever need) really wide angle this is a big consideration - if you don't need really wide angle then it's obviously not going to be very important.

Tech cameras are slower and require more skill and practice to work with than an SLR design. It's very possible for some users the trade off is not worth the additional quality. But you didnt ask about that - you asked about image quality so that is what I focused my post on.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
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Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

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[BillOConnor]

The problem I've seen with most Tech cameras beyond their insanely expensive price, is the very limited amount of shift and tilt available to the photographer. None of the wide lenses except the 32mm Rodenstock have much of an image circle. Tilt and swing? That requires a different lens board for the Cambo. I've never been able to find out how much extra that little item is.
No retrofocus lens can match the performance of a lens focused at its true focal length, but $13,000 for a Cambo RS with the 32mm Rodenstock and the TS mount is pretty steep, unless of course you have a LOT of that kind of work. When I shot architectural interiors on 4x5 with my 72mm Schneider XL, the pay for that work barely compensated the photographer for the large number of lights--strobe and tungsten--the stands, booms and lens/camera equipment required for this physically demanding work.
With the housing industry in decline, how many clients can a shooter hope to land to pay off a photographer's initial investment.
Using the 28mm lens, Hassie or Phase One/Mamiya, intelligently, finding camera angles that work with that setup, like
shooters did with the Hasselblad Super-Wide in days of yore, might be a better place to start.
Just a thought.

[David Watson]

Hi

You might want to check out this kit.  It will probably cost less than juts buying an HTS.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280617516957&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Had one of these identical kits and sold it a few months ago for 3000 Euros so you might get a bargain.

Good luck

David

[siebel]

I am about to order an Arca Swiss Rm3d. In the last minute I was looking at the Hasselblad HTS.
Woult it do the job just as good for landscape-work?

I am an architectural shooter who shoots landscapes for pleasure.
Doug is spot-on, as usual.I concur with all he says.
The Blad solution is severely compromised from both a IQ and practicality viewpoint.
The restricted angle of view is a severe limitation, particularly for landscapes. My most-used focal length is a 35mm on a P65+. The HST with a 28 doesn't even come close. If you are IQ driven, you won't be satisfied with the files. The combination is also dastardly heave and you will pay a high price lugging it in the field.
There are some valuable threads running on getDPI at the moment that you should look at.
The Arca is a great camera, but consider the Horseman, Cambo and (my fave) the Alpa STC before you make a decision.

Cheers,

[siebel]

Hi

You might want to check out this kit.  It will probably cost less than juts buying an HTS.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280617516957&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Had one of these identical kits and sold it a few months ago for 3000 Euros so you might get a bargain.

Good luck

David

For a landscape camera? You surely have a sturdier backpack than mine!!

[David Watson]

For a landscape camera? You surely have a sturdier backpack than mine!!

I wondered why my feet kept sinking into the ground??

Never used it for landscape (although it might have been nice to try it) - mostly used for architectural interiors for the short time I tried it.

Thanks for the laugh/

David

[David Watson]

I am an architectural shooter who shoots landscapes for pleasure.
Doug is spot-on, as usual.I concur with all he says.
The Blad solution is severely compromised from both a IQ and practicality viewpoint.
The restricted angle of view is a severe limitation, particularly for landscapes. My most-used focal length is a 35mm on a P65+. The HST with a 28 doesn't even come close. If you are IQ driven, you won't be satisfied with the files. The combination is also dastardly heave and you will pay a high price lugging it in the field.
There are some valuable threads running on getDPI at the moment that you should look at.
The Arca is a great camera, but consider the Horseman, Cambo and (my fave) the Alpa STC before you make a decision.

Cheers,

Without disagreeing that the 35mm/P65 is a great combination I think that an H4D-50/28mm is almost as good.  I tend to use the 35mmHC and stitch images using a Really Right Stuff pano rail.  This gives me the detail, IQ and image size that I want.

[Christopher]

I think he meant P65 + 35 schneider on his Alpa, but I could be wrong.

[David Grover / Capture One]

I am an architectural shooter who shoots landscapes for pleasure.
Doug is spot-on, as usual.I concur with all he says.
The Blad solution is severely compromised from both a IQ and practicality viewpoint.
The restricted angle of view is a severe limitation, particularly for landscapes. My most-used focal length is a 35mm on a P65+. The HST with a 28 doesn't even come close. If you are IQ driven, you won't be satisfied with the files. The combination is also dastardly heave and you will pay a high price lugging it in the field.
There are some valuable threads running on getDPI at the moment that you should look at.
The Arca is a great camera, but consider the Horseman, Cambo and (my fave) the Alpa STC before you make a decision.

Cheers,

Does this come from a practical test of the HTS or otherwise?

What about the actual architecture and landscape photographers who are using this combination?

I was under the impression Landscape photographers did not restrict themselves to wide angle alone?

[Doug Peterson]

The problem I've seen with most Tech cameras beyond their insanely expensive price, is the very limited amount of shift and tilt available to the photographer. None of the wide lenses except the 32mm Rodenstock have much of an image circle. Tilt and swing? That requires a different lens board for the Cambo. I've never been able to find out how much extra that little item is.

Schneider 43mm and 47mm both have huge image circles, Rodenstock 32mm and 28mm and Schneider 35mm have large image circles.

It would take you just a few minutes to call a competent Cambo dealer to ask them for a quote on any given lens with or without a TiltSwing mount. It's not a government secret.  

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________

Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One Partner of the Year
Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
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[shaun]

Hi

I use the HTS with a H3d11 39 usually with an 80mm lens for stitching and it is completely flawless. I used the 28mm and max shift to get the top of a tower in but it went very very soft at the top, not my usual type of material so haven't tried since. Works great as 1.5 teleconvertor too, much better than my 2x convertor.

Shaun

[Don Libby]

While not a response to using a HTS or Arca Swiss it does offer information on using a technical camera for landscape....


I've been using a Cambo WRS and P45+ now for several years now and I try to make my living shooting landscape.  I've shot with a 24mm but soon found just too wide and very unforgiving on shifts and sold it.  My primary lenses have been a 35mm, 72,, and 120mm Schneider.  I can get great levels of movements on all these lenses particularly the 120 as it has a great image circle.

I've stopped using a dSLR Mamiya/Phase a long time ago and simply don't miss it.  Shooting on a technical camera offers advantages and challenges.  The major advantage in my own opinion is the lens quality.  Among the challenges:  slow setup, the need for a very sturdy tripod, and a deliberate mindset as to what you are doing.  Using a TC is more challenging in the framing stages than a dSLR as you aren't looking through the lens and clicking the shutter - you end up using a viewfinder that sits on top of the body or a groundglass that even in the best conditions can be bloody awful (and upside down).

I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Cheers

Don

[Nick-T]

My most-used focal length is a 35mm on a P65+. The HST with a 28 doesn't even come close.

Forgive me but WHY ON EARTH would you be comparing a 35mm lens on a P65 with a 28mm plus an HTS?? The HTS is designed to give you some front movements (that you don't have with your combo), if you just need wide angle the surely you would be comparing the 35mm with the 28mm. If I remember my maths correctly a 28mm is generally wider than a 35mm.

Nick-T

[fuzzyfoto]

I've been using a Cambo WRS and P45+ now for several years now and I try to make my living shooting landscape.  I've shot with a 24mm but soon found just too wide and very unforgiving on shifts and sold it.  My primary lenses have been a 35mm, 72,, and 120mm Schneider.  I can get great levels of movements on all these lenses particularly the 120 as it has a great image circle.

Cheers

Don

How do you focus with the 120mm Schneider in the field, shooting landscapes?

ff

[David Watson]

Does this come from a practical test of the HTS or otherwise?

What about the actual architecture and landscape photographers who are using this combination?

I was under the impression Landscape photographers did not restrict themselves to wide angle alone?

Completely concur with what David has just said.  On 3 field trips recently fewer than 5% of my total raw captures were on wide angle lenses. In fact many of my "panoramic images" were stitched images using my 210mm lens.  IMO this technique produces a far better result than can be produced with a single image from any technical camera and a P65.  Give me the portability (just) and ease of use of my Hasselblad any day over any view camera for landscape photography. 

[mudgey]

I had exactly the same idea, and bought an H3dll 50 and the tilt shift adapter. Don't waste your money, its almost impossible to use without the camera being tethered, adds 1.5 maginifaction to the lenses and reduces the image quality. The back is also limited by the performance of the H lenses, much better to go with your original idea.

[shaun]

My 1st attempts with HTS were terrible (out of focus, too much swing), it didn't take long to start getting it right though. I never tether for landscape with it, perhaps with my 210mm I would shoot a few extra frames in low light but you soon get the feel for it.

Shaun

[henrikfoto]

I had exactly the same idea, and bought an H3dll 50 and the tilt shift adapter. Don't waste your money, its almost impossible to use without the camera being tethered, adds 1.5 maginifaction to the lenses and reduces the image quality. The back is also limited by the performance of the H lenses, much better to go with your original idea.

Thank you! I am starting to think thats right.
But what about cameras like the P3 and X-act?

Aside from the weight, will they take the realy wide lenses?

[David Grover / Capture One]

Thank you! I am starting to think thats right.
But what about cameras like the P3 and X-act?

Aside from the weight, will they take the realy wide lenses?

Hi Henrik,

I will also say there are plenty of people who say the opposite.  Read above for example!

It takes a few sessions to get the feel for it.  As Shaun says you tend to over compensate at first with regards to tilt settings when actually a couple of degrees makes a world of difference.

The argument that is compromises the lenses is nonsense.  We wouldn't produce an accessory which ruined performance.  The HTS was a long time in R&D and other solutions were discarded during this process to ensure quality would be paramount.

It is also the only adapter of its kind to read the settings (tilt shift and rotation) and use this in raw conversion to aid the final output quality.

David