“Er, the point I took issue with was the nonsense statement that all Mac purchases are emotional decisions. I haven't proved your point at all.”
It’s not a nonsense statement! And I don’t believe I said all MAC purchases are emotional, because if you own a company with 10+ employees and you own all MACs I could understand buying another MAC, however as you upgrade each machine I certainly would switch over to PCs. And you have proven my point because the only “valid” reason you give for buying a MAC today is because Windows 95 was awful. I’ll take your word that MAC was a better more reliable machine in 1995, but I’m talking about 2006 and on, please give me a rational reason why one should buy a MAC today?
I’ve asked about software programs that are ported exclusively to a MAC whereas no ALTERNATIVE exists (PASCAL) IOW, don’t mention Aperture because obviously programs which are just as good or probably better exist (I have a little Aperture experience).
“I agree: people who do not DEPEND in their computers [have computers as a hobby or interest] for their income have differing priorities compared to people who require very stable computers working at top speed every job, every day, where failures or instability are best avoided, lest we suffer the loss of (a) the job, (b) the client, (c) the season/ opportunity.”
Pascal, you don’t even make sense! I’m not talking about untested home brewed machines. Mission critical, how about work for NASA, Nuclear Navy, or Rolls Royce, Harley Davidson, Coke? How about accounting, tax compliance and consultation for Fortune 1000 companies? Yes, mission critical work, machines must be very stable and reliable. Stop the nonsense. How about designing buildings? How about the structural engineering required for tall skyscrapers? I’m not talking about making a movie here, talking about human lives! Yes, all mission critical.
After building thousands of machines since 1998 (some of those were for people over the age of 70 who never used a computer before) I'm convinced that a MAC is not anymore user friendly than a PC and in my experience it's been the other way around.
“- Your Mileage Varies from mine.”
I just wonder how miles you have driven?
"However, IMHO the two OS are close enough as to be a non-issue."
- No. We don't agree on that point.
I haven’t read one unbiased expert review that doesn’t state they are very close and every MAC user that I know readily admits that Windows is equally as reliable and just as stable if not more so. My MAC use starts in 2006 and there’s no denying they are both equally stable, though MACs can’t do all that PCs can do.
“- How is this shown to you satisfaction?
- This dilemma/ issue is also reflected in several 35mm vs. medium format discussions.”
You truly don’t understand? It’s quite simple, explain to me what a MAC can do that a PC can’t. Show me a software package ported to a MAC that there is no PC alternative, IOW as I stated above Aperture is a very poor example because obviously there are better programs out there for a PC. Forget 35mm and MF, it’s a lousy analogy.
I have taken every type of MAC apart and they use all the "normal" PC components, they just charge a lot more for them.
“- We don't completely agree on that point.”
Explain? What part do you agree with? I have MACs sitting right in front of me, none have any different brand of components than any other company and they don’t come close to matching what I build.
“cherry-picking: you are not comparing FACTORY assembled computers to CUSTOM BUILT machines, are you?”
No Pascal, just unreliable Home Brew machines
As I stated, your list of pros for the MAC is silly and absolutely false. Maybe you did install a BlueRay drive in a MAC Pro but it’s not supported by Apple or the MAC OS, I thought you only used tried and true machines? You know, for the mission critical work your clients do?
“- The design choices one company makes [Apple] versus the design choices computer PARTS suppliers can make. Again, comparing CUSTOM BUILT machines vs STOCK machines is a not valid balance.”
Again, a silly statement because there are large computer companies that do build machines with the components I’ve discussed. What’s wrong with comparing a custom built PC with an Apple if it’s better, faster, stable, reliable and less expensive? Would your clients have a problem with a better machine for less money?
"On a more simple note, a MAC can't use a USB3 device and doesn't support BluRay."
“- I'll let my client know he has an machine that does not exist.*”
You’ll notice I didn’t state a BluRay player won’t work with a MAC? I said it’s NOT supported and for mission critical work, don’t you want all your components to be natively supported?
What is supported by a MAC that isn't by a PC or where there is no PC equivalent?
“- What is supported on ANY, CUSTOMIZED Apple machine that is not supported by ANY, CUSTOMIZED machine running Windows? That seems to be your real question. Or it would be if you were looking for a more balanced comparison.”
WRONG, I’m not even speaking about the components; I’m speaking about Windows and MAC OS. I’m asking you and Bill what software packages you use that are exclusive to the MAC OS whereas there are no viable PC alternatives, I gave some examples.
“I'll compare the way you compare: particular hardware abilities.
[All of the universe vs. Apple]
- Target mode?
- network boot [since OS9]?”
You are kidding right? You don’t know how to boot from a network? I’ll research Target mode and get back to you on that one, but I have a feeling it’s irrelevant.
One such example are CAD programs, the MAC OS can't run CAD programs, need the proof?
“I'll compare the way you compare: 'exclusive' software:
- Final Cut Pro?
- Alias Sketch? [Oops, that finally was migrated to Windows]
- Marionette? [Oops, that has yet to be available outside of Pixar]
- ElectricImage? [Oops, that finally was ported to Windows]
- RenderMan? [Oops, that finally was ported to Windows]
- AVID [Oops, that finally was ported to Windows]”
It’s not the way I compare at all, I gave a list of programs where there is no substitute, listing Aperture is silly, I-work, Final Cut Pro, I-life, Logic all have PC alternatives.
"I doubt you will find a $100,000.00 engineering software package ported to a MAC? Or a $250,000.00 accounting software package?"
- Are these programs a good value? I'm pretty sure OSX and Linux can do math operations.
- Buying expensive software is an emotional decision.*
And there isn't anything comparable to Auto-Cad.
“- Buying AutoCAD is to fulfill a purely emotional need*. There are much more affordable software packages that can do whatever AutoCAD can do.
- There is nothing AutoCAD can do that cannot be done on any other software packages.
[- I went there.]”
Yes, you very stupidly went there with more idiotic statements. I can tell you have NEVER touched Auto-Cad because nobody would buy it based upon an emotional need unless you like to torture yourself! Just kidding, but it’s very powerful software with a steep learning curve. As far as what other CAD software packages can do, well all the good ones are based upon the Auto-Cad engine!!
“My main point in this post: many of my client choose OS X [and related hardware] because of STABILITY. And dependability. And perceived ease of use.
All of these points are SUBJECTIVE, and are usually based on experience, personal or otherwise.”
I don’t dispute that there are probably many people who perceive MACs as more reliable and dependable, even without ever touching a PC. Plus, are you sure it’s not your infectious personality that sways them towards a MAC? If they like you, they will like what you propose, right? I wouldn’t say that stability and dependability are subjective; I’d say it is or it isn’t.
“If your cost-benefit analysis does NOT include OBJECTIVE or SUBJECTIVE stability comparisons, don't bother. Most OS X users PAY MORE for the INCREASED stability, reliability, and SERVICE that Apple is perceived to provide.”
Of course my cost benefit includes stability, reliability and performance. Obviously Apple has marketed their products in such a manner as to make people believe something other than reality. They couldn’t charge more for a computer if everybody knew they could get something better for less money. That is why I’ve always realized there’s no way to win this debate, because Apple wouldn’t have a $300+ billion market cap if people thought they were buying overpriced nicely designed computers, phones, music devices, etc.
“Perception is important. Dismissing the perception of others without convincing THEM is moot.”
Honest to GOD, Albert Einstein has NOTHING on you!!!
“My last point calls out "Gemmtech" with a specific question:”
And I believe (until I'm shown differently) that a PC can do everything a MAC can do but a MAC can't do everything that a PC can do in it's native OS state!
“- How is this shown to you satisfaction?”
Very simple and I think I have asked many times. Please read above!
“I accept that and celebrate it. I would NOT want everyone to think the same on any complex subject.”
Look, buying a computer is NOT a complex subject, Black Holes, Quarks, Quantum Physics, Calculus, A cure for AIDS or Cancer, these are complex subjects.
I was just curious what rational reason one could have to buy a MAC in 2011? Is there software that only runs on a MAC that there is no comparable software for a PC? Obviously if somebody says to you, “I want a computer to run AutoCad” I wouldn’t think you’d sell him a MAC, would you? I’d build him a killer workstation utilizing an Intel MB, dual XEON CPUs, Nvidia Quadro 5000, 24GB Crucial / Corsair RAM, at least two Seagate Cheetak 15K Hard drives (Possibly SSD instead if they understood the risks and costs) set up in a RAID Array, I’d probably at least use two of the fastest SSD made for OS and Programs set up in a RAID O configuration, with a ghost image after it’s all loaded. All wrapped up in a nice Coolermaster or equal case, powered by a PC Power & Cooling or equal PS and it would be loaded with Windows 7 64 BIT, I’d either use an NEC or Samsung monitor 27” or 30” Now price it all out and you will understand my point! I’ll give you all the exact part numbers.
“Guess you aren't married?
When my wife said: "I need a new computer, can I have a mac?" ... I said: "Sure." She hasn't asked for my help with the computer since.
One of the most rational things I did all last year. I guess that was 2010 and not 2011 ... so .... ”
Yes, I am married and my wife said “There are 6 computers in this house and not one of them is mine, I want my own!” So I bought her an IMAC 24” and then the first phone call, “How do you maximize the window?” the 2nd call “How do you preview the photos in the folder?” many other calls in between and then naturally “Honey, the computer died” (Hard drive died within 6 months) after that is was “Honey, the monitor looks weird, I can see the icons and previous windows in my word document” I call it burn in and Apple calls it “Image Persistence”. Finally got everything up and working after Apple replaced the hard drive (Don’t ask about their warranty policy) and she tells me “The computer isn’t working again” (another hard drive died, I replaced it myself, suction cups, duct tape, #6 torx heads, #0 screwdriver, lift this, move this to the right, do this, then that……………………………….WOW, just to replace a freakin hard drive!!! Got it back up and working, Last request I got from her “Can you please just install windows on this thing”