SW USA trip

[slb_000]

I'm in the process of planning a trip round some of the SW USA national parks for next March / April, and would welcome any suggestions as to my itinarary.  The trip is for four of us (Couple & two individuals, all adults), staying in hotels / self-catering accomadation only, and the others are not particularly keen photographers.

There is a little bit of flexibility in terms of timings - there are probably one or two days which could be switched around.

In addition if anyone could recommend good self-catering accomadation in / near Moab, and hotels at any of the other locations it would be useful.

Thanks,

Simon

Current plans:

Day 1 - fly in to Las Vegas, collect hire car, night in Vegas
Day 2 - travel to Grand Canyon S rim. via Hoover Dam
Day 3 - at GC - Sunrise / set, rim walk
Day 4 - leave GC via Watchtower, drive to Page
Day 5 - Page - Horseshoe bend / Antelope canyon tour etc. (already tried & failed for Wave permit)
Day 6 - Leave for Monument Valley - jeep tour, night probably Mexican hat
Day 7 - travel to Cortez via some of Valley of the Gods, Natural Bridges, Hovenweep, Canyons of Ancients
Day 8 - Mesa Verde NP - museum & views (house tours not open - too early in year)
Day 9 - to Moab via Canyonlands Needles district on way
Days 10 - 12/3 staying in Moab - Arches, Canyonlands etc.
Day 13 - to Torrey or Boulder via Goblin Valley SP
Day 14 - Capitol Reef NP
Day 15 - to Bryce Canyon NP, Peekaboo trail, Sunset at rim
Day 16 - in Bryce / poss to Zion
Day 17 - Zion, incl. hike to rim from Checkerboard Mesa
Day 18 - Zion - main valley
Day 19 - Zion - west road
Day 20 - back to Las Vegas.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Just a general remark: it seems you are trying to cram too many sites in three weeks. If the goal is to see each site for an hour or so (and not necessarily the optimum hour), and given the presence of non-photographers, then it is maybe ok. If the goal is to photograph certain sites well, exploring the best views and optimum timing/lighting, and sometimes waiting for it, than a certain redundancy should be planned, i.e., longer stays and less locations. I've done a similar round trip starting/ending in Las Vegas: Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Arches, Capitol Reef, Bryce, Zion, with two-three days at least devoted to each.

[slb_000]

I'm aware its a bit short, however I think this does need to be a visit to the sites first, and chances for photography second given the rest of the group.  In addition I (but not the others) have visited Bryce, Zion, Monument and the Grand Canyon before, so I am more interested in seeing the further sites.  I'm really hoping that with careful planning I can ensure a few chances at the right time at some of the locations, even if this is not possible everywhere.

Simon

[Paul Sumi]

Just a general remark: it seems you are trying to cram too many sites in three weeks.

Simon, some more general observations.  You don't say where your group is traveling from (i.e., someplace in the US or from out of the country).  But I get the sense that this trip may be an "once in a lifetime" type of situation and that multiple visits of smaller scale are out of the question.

Nonetheless, I agree that your agenda is very ambitious, particularly given the presence of non-photographers.  When I have traveled with "civilians"  I mostly find myself shooting vacation snaps. That's just the way it works and I accept that.

The only way I have been able to do serious photography under these circumstances is to tell my group that I will be going out to photograph X during Y time and that I will meet them at Z afterward.  It's a balancing act depending on how much time your group expects you to interact with them instead of your camera.

Paul

[slb_000]

Paul,

In response to your comments, you are quite correct - we all live in the UK, hence this being very much a one-off trip, where my photography is only one part of the total trip.  I am not looking for careful, planned photographs everywhere, however I would like advice as to specific places to try and do that while on that circuit.  (For example given limited sunrise/sets in that time, which are the best places to try for / which locations should be prioritised at what times of day.  And if I am adjusting that itinerary, where should I try to add or subtract the day or two I have spare).

(By the way, I have the Martres guidebooks - its more the balance of locations I need help with).

Thanks,

Simon

[Paul Sumi]

Simon,

Just IMO for Canyonlands I would concentrate more on the Islands in the Sky district than the Needles district, particularly if you have never before been to the area (for icons like Mesa Arch and Green Valley overlook) .  Also, Dead Horse Point State Park (near Arches NP) has a great sunrise and sunset view from the visitor center.

In Moab I've stayed at the Best Western Greenwell Inn, which was basically a decent place for us to sleep and wash up as we were out all day to photograph.  Moab is a tourist town so lots of places to eat.  

I've also stayed at the San Juan Inn in Medicine Hat, Utah, again a decent place to sleep and wash up for the same reason as above.  

One other thing - depending on how many National Parks you visit, it MAY be worthwhile to buy the NP annual pass ($80) for unlimited access instead of paying separate admission to each NP.  For example, Grand Canyon, Zion and Bryce are each $25, Canyonlands and Arches are each $10 per car (note: I believe all are 7 day passes).

http://www.nps.gov/fees_passes.htm

(Google individual NPs for entry fees, I couldn't find a comprehensive list).

Paul

[Lonnie Utah]

Your itinerary is totally feasible.  You will be road be road weary, but it's do-able.  With that being said, I will remind you of what Edward Abbey wrote in his classic Desert Solitaire (a book that you should read before you get here), "A man on foot, on horseback or on a bicycle will see more, feel more, enjoy more in one mile than the motorized tourists can in a hundred miles."  Having spent alot of time in the desert SW, I will agree with that statement 200%. 

I agree with the comment on the needles district.  To fully enjoy that section of the park, you really need a high clearance 4x4. The side trip to newspaper rock on UT211 is worth it tho.  If you decide to go to Hovenweep (the same goes for valley of the gods), make sure the road is dry.  It's very difficult to drive when wet, even in 4x4.  FWIW, March and April are early season, and can be wet. 

If you buy the national parks pass, it's also good for day use BLM (bureau of land management) pay sites.  This includes Calf Creek Falls, and Road Canyon and Mule Canyon on Cedar Mesa (outside of Blanding and is highly recommended).  It will not cover State Parks (goblin valley or dead horse point). 

I would reccomend the desert rose inn in Bluff over anything in Mexican hat.  http://www.desertroseinn.com/ It's about 45-60 mins from (north) monument valley. I've stayed there and it's clean with wireless internet, etc. A little pricy (about $100 US), but there aren't many options in that part of the world. Personally, I'd avoid the hotels in Montecello and Blanding Ut. I've heard to many horror stories about them. Make sure you get something to eat before you get there if you are coming in late. There isn't a lot in this part of the world, and these little western towns shut down pretty early. Also, if you even THINK you are running short on petrol, fill her up.

Without the house tours, 1/2 a day in Mesa Verde is enough.  Frankly, if you are willing to do a little walking, there are cooler, lesser know, places that will be closer to you. You already have the information in your hands, you just need to extract it.  Remember what Abbey said and don't be afraid to get out of you car and do some walking.  You wont regret it. 

[dmerger]

"A man on foot, on horseback or on a bicycle will see more, feel more, enjoy more in one mile than the motorized tourists can in a hundred miles." 

Personally, I'd avoid the hotels in Montecello and Blanding Ut. I've heard to many horror stories about them. 

I've done a lot of hiking on foot, long distance by bicycle and by car.  I agree with the quote, but the same applies to foot versus bicycle, too. 

It's been several years, but I've stayed at many motels in all the areas mentioned, including in Montecello and Blanding numerous times.  The motels in Montecello and Blanding are like the motels anywhere else.  I wouldn't have any hesitation at all to stay in either of those towns.

[slb_000]

Following the comments about Mesa Verde being limited given the house tours are not running, where is the best alternative for good Puebloan ruins / tours? - at that time of year should we detour to Canyon de Chelly or somewhere else instead, and if so will it actually save distance / free up more time?

(an NP annual pass has already been sorted, so that is covered).

Thanks,

Simon

[Lonnie Utah]

It's been several years, but I've stayed at many motels in all the areas mentioned, including in Montecello and Blanding numerous times.  The motels in Montecello and Blanding are like the motels anywhere else.  I wouldn't have any hesitation at all to stay in either of those towns.

I was trying to be discreet before, but FWIW, I've heard several reports of bedbugs from those towns.  http://bedbugregistry.com/

Following the comments about Mesa Verde being limited given the house tours are not running, where is the best alternative for good Puebloan ruins / tours? - at that time of year should we detour to Canyon de Chelly or somewhere else instead, and if so will it actually save distance / free up more time?

Given the nature of many of these sites, talking about them openly on an internet forum isn't the best idea.  As I said before, you already have the tools you need to figure it out.  There are many places you can go, I suggest you start looking at the Cedar Mesa Area.  However, none of them are on a grand a scale as Mesa Verde.  The reason I made my comments are that the actual foot print of the ruins are small and about 30-60 mins one way from the entrance to the park depending on traffic.  But without being able to take to tours, you'll be looking at the ruins from overlooks which are fairly far away from the ruins themselves.  Most folks only spend about 5-10 mins at each overlook.  This is to mention nothing of the weather, which if you come in march has the potential to be dicey (it's about about 6,200' (1900M) in elevation so they get some winter storms there, and the mesa is fairly exposed.  Cortez is only about 1 hour from Monticello (which is only 1 hour from Moab) so drive time it's not really that much in the grand scheme of things.  If you simply want to see ancient puebloan ruins, go to mesa verde.  If you want to EXPERIENCE them, go somewhere else on this visit.  

[jeremypayne]

... I've heard several reports of bedbugs from those towns.  

Bedbugs are everywhere ... even the Waldorf Astoria ...

http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2010/10/21/lawsuit-blames-waldorf-astoria-for-familys-bedbug-blight/

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/11/04/2010-11-04_waldorfastoria_visit_left_family_infested_with_bed_bugs_covered_in_bites_and_ash.html

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/NATLMaryland-Tourist-Sues-Luxury-Waldorf-Astoria-for-Bed-Bugs-113085864.html

[LesPalenik]

I'm in the process of planning a trip round some of the SW USA national parks for next March / April, and would welcome any suggestions as to my itinarary.

Perfect timing. If you'll be in Utah by end of March or beginning of April, you might want to look at the MF panoramic workshop in Moab

http://peterlorber.com/photography-workshops.html

[Kathy]

"I'm in the process of planning a trip round some of the SW USA national parks for next March / April, and would welcome any suggestions as to my itinarary." 

It sounds like a fantastic trip. It is possible to cover all that ground but I think you will be car weary by the end and will have missed out on so much enjoyment by not slowing down. I have been to nearly all of the places on your tour but over a number of trips, returning to several of the locations at different times of the year. However to fully appreciate them you need a little time to take a good walk and to be in the right place for the light. This area is heaven for photographers but also for those that enjoy the great outdoors.
With regard to specific locations, you have the perfect guides, I have used them and found the information to be accurate although they sometimes ignored winter conditions which closes many of the smaller roads. Canyon de Chelly is an excellent choice and if you get a good guide they are very helpful providing lots of historical information. Arches is wonderful and well worth the early rise to get Landscape Arch at sunrise. Even without a camera it is a great place to walk. Canyonlands, Mesa Arch at sunrise is a must, it is only a short walk from the car park. At Bryce last year in early March we had sunrise to ourselves, there was a lot of snow and changing weather conditions so it presented good photographic opportunities at various times of the day. Capitol Reef again we visited early March, it was empty. Great photography morning and evening, if conditions are good I would spend at least 2 days there. If it is snowing or there has been heavy rain some roads can close but the rangers try to open them as soon as possible. Regarding places to stay, we tend to use Best Western as they are easy to book as we travel and reasonable quality. There are several good places to stay in Springdale just outside Zion and Michael Fatali's Gallery is worth a visit if it is open.
One other idea is to check out the phases of the moon, a full moon at Arches over Balanced Rock or peeping through the Spectacles is an option.
Have a great trip.
Kathy

[markadams99]

As an English tourist who first came to Utah and Arizona on a whirlwind tour of everywhere, I'd say go for it. It's just the nature of the trip. I've been back 6 times since and tend now to focus on the Escalante area (Boulder to Escalante). Tho I like Zion, on your tour I'd give it one day (maybe Angel's Landing) and spend 2 more days in the Arches/Canyonlands area which is infinite for lovely short, easy hikes. Tho the Needles district is great for hiking, especially the hike to the Colorado River / Green River confluence, you'd maybe get more out wandering to the many sights in Arches. If you want 1 really stunning full day drive, with fabulous, varied stops, then the Cathedral Valley loop near Capitol Reef is simply wonderful. There's a pleasant slot canyon experience to be had near Goblin Valley at Little Wild Horse Canyon.

These days I always fly in and out of Salt Lake City rather than Las Vegas, just a nicer airport and easier route out.

Oh a lovely, level hike near Boulder, just off Highway 12, is Calf Creek Falls.

The fact is the area is infinite and all the look-outs are better than you'd expect.

Ps give Antelope Canyon a miss, very touristic. Find a more atmospheric and lonelier slot canyon.

[Lonnie Utah]

Michael Fatali's Gallery is worth a visit if it is open.

^^ This is true.  The fact that he still shoots with an 8x10 LF and uses no filters is amazing.

[dmerger]

+1

If you enjoy landscape photography, especially of the Colorado Plateau, don't miss Michael Fatali's gallery.

Also, be sure to visit Tom Till's gallery in Moab. 

[spreeg]

I was just in that area last week.  A couple places not on your list but nearby are:

Dead Horse Point (very close to arches and similar to horseshoe bend)
Bisti Badlands near Farmington, New Mexico (few people go there but it has some very interesting rock formations)

[bretedge]

While you're here in Moab I would definitely consider visiting/photographing Dead Horse Point SP.  It's an amazing location and my favorite overlook in the Moab area.  The suggestion to spend more time in Island in the Sky and less in Needles is a good one.  Needles is very much a hiker's park and you won't find many roadside views.  Every pull out on the side of the road in Island in the Sky will blow your mind.

The Laurent Martres' book is a good one.  You might also check out iFotoGuide: Arches, if you have an iPhone or iPod Touch.  It's available in the Apple iTunes App Store and is a digital guide to photographing the park.

Good luck and enjoy your trip!

[francois]

Brett,
Thanks for the pointer to the iPhone guides.

[slb_000]

Thanks everyone for the replies above - I've now made most of the bookings, and the modified itinerary is as follows:

Day 1 - fly in to Las Vegas, collect hire car, night in Vegas
Day 2 - travel to Grand Canyon S rim. via Hoover Dam
Day 3 - at GC - Sunrise / set, rim walk
Day 4 - leave GC via Watchtower, Page for Antelope on route, night at Kayenta (MV sunset if time)
Day 5 - Jeep tour Monument Valley, Valley of Gods and Gooseneck SP, stay at Bluff
Day 6 - Day trip to Mesa Verde, Hovenweep
Day 7 - 11  Moab via Canyonlands Needles district
in Moab do Arches, Canyonlands, Dead Horse SP etc.
Day 12 - to Hanksville, Goblin Valley & Little Wild Horse Canyon
Day 13 - Horseshoe Canyon (Canyonlands) & drive to Boulder
Day 14 - 15 Capitol Reef / Calf Creek Falls / Hole in rock road etc.
Day 16 - to Bryce Canyon NP, Peekaboo trail, Sunset at rim
Day 17 - in Bryce
Day 18 - Zion
Day 19 - Zion
Day 20/21 - back to Las Vegas.

Any further advice as to specific times / places to try to get to for specific photos would be appreciated, along with a couple of less photographic questions:

Where is the best place to stock up with provisions in Las Vegas before departing?
Which short hikes are best in Canyonlands - Needles?
Which tour companies would you reccomend for Upper Antelope canyon, and Monument Valley? (overall tour rather than just photograpic)

Thanks,

Simon