Piezo Pro Clear Film and Epson, HP, or Canon?

[vconnors]

Question:
Has anyone had any luck printing Piezo Clear film on a "comparable" wide format printer other than an Epson? Canon ipf6300, 9300 or HP Designjet Z3100 perhaps?  I've read that because of the different head technology on the canon and hp that they will not print opaque onto a clear substrate like piezo pro clear film.

Backstory:
I'm in the market for a wide format printer 24" or 44" to be the workhorse of my design studio.
(I've had pretty extensive experience with a mimaki Tx-1600, Printing on a variety of media (fabric mostly), replacing heads and mother boards and dampers and such, and I've worked with a 7600 & 7800 Epson, without issues)

Printer will be used for:
Transparencies: (Opaque Black on clear substrate): 30%
Matte Posters: 50%
Gloss Photographs: 20%

I'd like to print "transparencies" or “screen positives” on clear film to shoot onto silk screens.  Additionally I'd like to print color posters on matte paper, and photographs on gloss paper.

It is important that this printer be able to print opaque black on clear film as well as basic matte and photographic artwork. 
Previously, I’ve used an epson 7600 to print the transparencies, and it worked great.  No significant head clog problems. 

I no longer have access to the 7600, so I'm looking to invest my hard earned money into a printer of my own.  I've been reading a lot of horror stories about clogging on the Epson’s, and because of that  (and the attractive pricetag of “comparable” models), I’m hesitant to proceed with a 7900 or 9900.  If needed as a last resort, I’m confident I could replace a head, but at $600 a pop, I’d rather not have to ever deal with that.   

Anyway, It seems like the best deal for a printer is a canon or HP, but I'm hesitant because I am only positive that the epson prints opaque black on piezo pro clear film.  I'm not positive that any other printer can offer this.  Does anyone have any evidence or advice to the contrary?

Thank you for reading.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Consider that the Epson x600 printers and inkset delivered the best opaque blacks on film. I recall that a company distributing silkscreen equipment in The Netherlands purchased several 9600 new and secondhand when the 9800 was introduced. They already figured out that the 9800 etc didn't make as nice a black on inkjet film (Agfa) the 9600 could produce.

On the HP Z3100 with the HP media preset + profile for matte film I can not get enough opacity for silkscreen positives. I didn't explore other settings enough as I prefer to use two films mounted against one another. Gives good opacity then and the printed image is protected for archiving that way. Mainly vector designs with occasional coarse halftone screens so the method suits that content.

There are now Z3200 and recently? Z3100 media presets etc for creating film negatives for alternative photographic processes. You could find out what the black density is they achieve with that method. This isn't the hard edge litho positive or negative as used in the usual graphic processes like silkscreen. Someone at HP labs in Barcelona created the methods in his spare time.

http://h41131.www4.hp.com/us/en/press/hp-introduces-large-format-photo-negative-application-for-fine-art-quality-professional-photo-editions.html
http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/main/index.jsp?zn=gap&cp=20000-13698-15259-15788^322739_4041_312__


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/

[vconnors]

Dear Ernst,

Thank you for your reply.  Very informative.  I am going to continue to research more.  I may decide to purchase a used 7600 to devote entirely to printing film, and supplement with an additional color canon or hp for posters/photos.

Now I'm just looking for deals...

[Sven W]

Epson made and sold a printer called Epson Stylus Pro 4450-screen, with an additional black ink, named "PhotoBlack 4".
I don't know if it's discontinued, and it's only a 17" printer, but the technique is interesting, aimed for screen film printing.

But I can't understand why a 7600 has better opaque blacks than e.g. a 7900?
My 9900 deliver extremely deep blacks on film media. As low as 1.34 Black L* value.

/Sven

[Ernst Dinkla]

There is a difference between a Dmax value measured with a spectrometer and film density as used in the graphic arts. Opacity for transmitted actinic light is what is important in photo mask films. Blocking UV light of a MH lamp in practice. What precisely the reason was for the 9600 advantage isn't clear to me either, it could have been the slightly larger minimum droplet size 5 versus 3.5 picoliter and a related pigment concentration in the PK


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

New: Spectral plots of +190 inkjet papers:
http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm

[Farmer]

For interest's sake, there are plenty of commercial users making use of K3, K3+VM and HDR inksets from Epson for film.  The 9600 might have had some advantages, but with an appropriate RIP there don't appear to be any problems from a commercial sense using a current model and the appropriate inkset.

[a.lorge]

For what it's worth, I came across this product when I was looking into textile printing a while back. http://www.graphicsone.com/products/ink/go-ink/go-dmax-4-pigment-hd-ink-black.html According to the product description you can still use this as part of a full color pigment ink set in an Epson x900.  I don't have any first hand experience with it (I decided to go with a laser engraver for burning stencils instead) but it might be worth investigating.