Formatting CF Cards

[MichaelY]

[font color=\'#000000\']there is no downside, format as often as you like[/font]

[blanton]

[font color=\'#000000\']Thanks Tim, that's useful information re: the IDE vs. CF bit.[/font]

[Ray]

[font color=\'#000000\'] If you had a garage full of widgets and you could sell some for $40, or you could sell them elsewhere for $400, which would you prefer?[/font]

[font color=\'#000000\']If I could sell them at $40 and make a profit, I'd do so. To sell the same item to someone else for $400 would be immoral, unless of course I'm on a Robin Hood crusade to rob the rich to help the poor.

There should be an investigation into such practices. Do you not have 'fair trading' watchdogs in the USA?  [/font]

[Ray]

[font color=\'#000000\']I've known a person who never formated their card had it go from 256 to 26mb in size. An extream example but never-the-less possible. A quick format brought the card to it's full capacity.[/font]

[font color=\'#000000\']Well here's another person who has never formatted their 1GB microdrive after 11,000 shots over a 3 year period (mostly RAW) and the card still retains its full capacity of 141 images in RAW.[/font]

[61Dynamic]

[font color=\'#000000\']Sheesh. It's not my opinion, it's fact. If you want evedence then consult those links I provided earlier in the thread. A quick google search will provide you with more sources.

Flash cards and Microdrives use the FAT filing system (FAT, FAT16 or FAT32) created by Microsoft for the IBM PC back in 1980. It's been around for over 20 years and is found in all the millions of personal computers out there (servers and Win XP/2000 use a more stable "spin-off" called NTFS). It's characteristics have been well documented so it should be easy for you to pull up additional information if you're so inclined.[/font]

[Ray]

[font color=\'#000000\']I format in camera to clear the card as general practice.  However, there is one school of thought that claims this somehow slows the initial write times to the card as opposed to the simple detion of files.  [/font]

[font color=\'#000000\']I've now adopted the practice of formatting instead of deleting. It's certainly much quicker, although the time saved is not necessarily of practical significance since wiping the whole card is not usually something done whilst anxiously waiting to take the next photo.

Am I now imagining it takes more time to clear the buffer using the 1GB IBM microdrive, because I'm aware of the issue?[/font]

[SDC]

[font color=\'#000000\']As a new user of the 10d, I have a question regarding CF cards.  I  would like to know when and how often the cards should be formatted. Thanks in advance for any help.[/font]

[blanton]

[font color=\'#000000\']I recently noticed something interesting regarding the formatting of three 4GB Hitachi Microdrives which I harvested from $200 Creative Muvo MP3 players. When formatted initially in a 1Ds the drives would be seen as 2GB cards. When re-formatted in an S50 they were recognised as and formatted as 4GB cards. After formatting as 4GB cards in the S50 they are happily recognized as, and happily re-format as, 4GB cards in the 1Ds. Curious, no?

I have heard that Hitachi is now sending Creative a different version of the drive which will not format for use in a camera though I havn't tested this.[/font]

[Jack Flesher]

[font color=\'#000000\']I format in camera to clear the card as general practice.  However, there is one school of though that claims this somehow slows the initial write times to the card as opposed to the simple detion of files.  Not sure if this is true only for a hard format or for the quick format too and from a proactical standpoint I've never noticed slow write times, so I continue the practice.[/font]

[Jonathan Wienke]

[font color=\'#000000\']When formatted initially in a 1Ds the drives would be seen as 2GB cards. When re-formatted in an S50 they were recognised as and formatted as 4GB cards. After formatting as 4GB cards in the S50 they are happily recognized as, and happily re-format as, 4GB cards in the 1Ds. Curious, no?[/font]

[font color=\'#000000\']This is due to a bug in the 1.2 firmware of the 1Ds. Version 1.3 fixes this.[/font]

[61Dynamic]

[font color=\'#000000\']

However, there is one school of though that claims this somehow slows the initial write times to the card as opposed to the simple detion of files.

Naw, that's bunk. CF cards use the very standard FAT file system that has been used for quite some time now in PCs. When you format a card it performs a low-level-format wich wipes out the File Allocation Table (what determins the basic disk structure) and re-writes a new one. Then a High-Level-format takes place and writes the directory structure. Just like simply deleting files, the data is still on the card but there is nothing pointing to where the data is and so the camera/computer writes to it as though nothing exists on the card.

If anything, fomating would speed up initial write times since the camera/computer doesn't first have to find free space to write to. Any difference however would be in the millisecond range.

Refference material:
http://tinyurl.com/2mnsg
http://tinyurl.com/2jwjj
http://www.google.com

Is there any downside to simply deleting the photos from the CF card instead of reformatting?

Yes, eventually you will collect "slack space" (in this case, errors in the logical structure of the disk) and the useable volume of your CF card will diminish. I've known a person who never formated their card had it go from 256 to 26mb in size. An extream example but never-the-less possible. A quick format brought the card to it's full capacity.[/font]

[Ray]

[font color=\'#000000\']It's characteristics have been well documented so it should be easy for you to pull up additional information if you're so inclined.[/font]

[font color=\'#000000\']Easy to pull up information. Not easy to pull up relevant information. A search of Google reveals lots of problems various people have encountered when attempting to format flash cards on various devices, and largely unanswered questions regarding whether or not it's better to delete files in-camera or re-format the card.

All the cards I use, CF type l and ll, were factory formatted. It seems a fair assumption that occasionally re-formating the card might keep it out of trouble. On the other hand, for all I know, it might be the case that the initial factory format is the most reliable format and that unnecessary formatting of the card might serve no purpose. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.[/font]

[61Dynamic]

[font color=\'#000000\']

Am I now imagining it takes more time to clear the buffer using the 1GB IBM microdrive, because I'm aware of the issue?

Probably. A watched pot never boils as they say [/font]

[jwarthman]

[font color=\'#000000\']I've used Canon DSLRs for several years. Whenever I copy images from my CF card to my hard drive, I insert the CF card back in the camera and format it. It's quicker than deleting all the images, and it ensures I have a "fresh" format. I see absolutely no downsides to this procedure.

Enjoy!

-- Jim[/font]

[Lisa Nikodym]

[font color=\'#000000\']Is there any downside to simply deleting the photos from the CF card instead of reformatting?  (I've finally found where the Delete command is in my camera's overly-extensive menu system, and not sure I could find the Format command again  :p )

Lisa[/font]

[blanton]

[font color=\'#000000\']Market economy, Ray.  If you had a garage full of widgets and you could sell some for $40, or you could sell them elsewhere for $400, which would you prefer?[/font]

[Scott_H]

[font color=\'#000000\']Fair trade in the US is typically to encourage competition.  Price fixing and monopolys are no-no's.

If someone sells a product for a 10x mark up on their own, that is ok.  It is their own risk that they will not sell any at that high mark up.  Some companies do this on the basis of brand recognition, or some perception of quality on the part of the consumer and still make a profit.

If a group of companies all agrees to sell for a 10x mark up so they can all make more money, that is not considered fair trade.  Buying all of the companies that make the same product and marking it up 10x would not be considered fair trade either.  These examples remove the market from the equation, and violate anti-trust legislation.[/font]

[Ray]

[font color=\'#000000\']Granted it is possable to not have any troubles at all just as it is with a hard-drive.[/font]

[font color=\'#000000\']I'm not sure it is possible to not have any troubles at all if you don't defragment your hard drive now and again. If you keep adding and deleting files, then inevitably the data becomes fragmented and your drive slows down - guaranteed, I believe.

But generally, people don't use their flash cards and micro drives like hard drives. At least I[/i] don't use my memory cards as permanent storage devices, only partially deleting data before adding new data.

Clearly, if formatting the card is a quicker process than deleting a whole bunch of images, then that's sufficient reason for me to start formatting.[/font]

[61Dynamic]

[font color=\'#000000\']That's true too, but that's not the point. The point is reducing the chance of something going wrong. I believe that's understandable enough without the need to nit-pick minute detials.

The issue does not revolve around how the drive is used. It is the simple use of the drive that can cause data corruption. Formating regularly reduces the chance of bad things happening.[/font]

[jwarthman]

[font color=\'#000000\']I think that formatting a CF card in device A, but using it in device B, could (rarely) lead to problems. If the two devices don't share *exactly* the same definition for how-to-format the card, problems could creep in.

I have had no problems formatting cards inside my 1Ds. The camera "knows" what it expects in terms of a formatted card, and has never produced corruption of any kind.

Cards formatted in my 1Ds have also *never* failed to read correctly with my Macintosh.

And, as I mentioned earlier, I choose to format my CF card every time I'm ready to re-use it, after having saved my images to my hard drives. By doing this, I ensure that each time I start a shooting session, my 1Ds has removed all possible "unknowns" about the state of the CF card.

It's what has worked (flawlessly) for me.

Enjoy!

-- Jim[/font]