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Author Topic: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900  (Read 15893 times)

daveao

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Re: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2010, 11:13:13 pm »

Thanks Gary. I will look forward to hearing your settings. Dave
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2010, 05:49:23 am »

There have been many discussions on what causes the length differences when printing on canvas. It could be the tension lost of the fabric unwinding from the roll. It can be the difference of the transport axle's friction between heavy textured and smooth surfaces. It can be the overall heavier weight of the media. Different printers and different canvas qualities will deliver a wide variety of print length differences.

The media transport length control  in printers is usually of the servo type, a decoder disc (transparant disc with radial black lines + a Lamp + a counter, a similar but linear decoder strip is measuring the head carriage movement). It does not measure the actual media progress. Exceptions are the HP Z6100-6200 models that have a camera like sensor actually following the media's texture progress in transport.

To compensate the transport differences for more media some RIPs use a compensation build in the media presets, the same is done in media presets for normal drivers but not always. Customising them is possible but not in all cases. The best way then is a one directional resampling with a % suitable for a specific canvas. I have added a last step to my wrap actions for that purpose. Some applications have canvas wrap features but can not change aspect ratios/one directional resampling. If that still delivers a good length it could be that the media preset does have the right compensation without the user knowing what happens beneath the surface.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html






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Garnick

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Re: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2010, 12:56:49 pm »

Hi Dave,

As I mentioned previously, I do use Enhanced Matte Paper for testing images to be printed on Canvas.  I then add my correction factor from Enhanced Matte to Canvas and I use the Enhanced Matte Profile when I print the Canvas as well.  However, in my Canvas Preset for the 9900 I have the Media Type set to Canvas and of course on the printer control panel the Paper Type is also set to Canvas.  As Ernst has also mentioned, this may differ with other Canvas types, but for the Breathing Color Chromata White it works perfectly.  I think perhaps Epson did actually build in some hardware/software compensation for Canvas with this printer.  I hope this works for you Dave.

Gary
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Gary N.
"My memory isn't what it used to be. As a matter of fact it never was." (gan)

daveao

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Re: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2010, 07:47:18 pm »

Hi Gary. Forgive my ignorance but I am not sure I understand fully what you have just said.  When you are testing your images on Enhanced Matte that will be eventually printed on canvas, what are you testing for? These tests don't have anything to do with the print length do they? You must be testing for image quality etc?  2nd question: Are you using an Enhanced Matte paper profile with canvas paper? I can't understand why you would do this. 

If I am reading correctly it sounds like I may as well avoid the paper feed adjustments, set both my MAC and my 9900 for canvas prints, and then do a % calculation on the length until I get it right for my medium. Once I get it dialed in this % factor will work on any size paper of that medium. Does this sound correct?  Dave
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davidh202

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Re: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2010, 08:35:55 pm »

Gary,
I'm confused ???How can you use the Enhanced Matte profile and Canvas setting at the same time in the driver?
If I am reading this correctly, (in the driver)you have essentially saved a custom paper configuration with a compensation factor built into   the feed adjustment setting using the Enhanced Matte settings as a basis, and naming your saved preset  "canvas"?
On the printer control panel you also have set the media to canvas.
That is not how I understood what you were doing from your initial post.
I thought you had said that you didn't need to make any mods to the driver. ?

I quote you,
"On the 9900 printer control panel I went to Paper Type>Fine Art Papers and scrolled down to Canvas.  That's the only thing I did differently from previous attempts and it worked perfectly.  All of my other driver settings are the same, and as long as I remember to set this on the control panel the "length" dimension of the image is "EXACT"!  No more fiddling around with adding canvas dimension or any of the other "band aid" fixes.  Other than the fact that the Paper Feed Adjustment seems to have absolutely no effect on the 9900 with the Mac driver"
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 08:39:29 pm by davidh202 »
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Garnick

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Re: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2010, 10:53:22 am »

Hi Dave,

Here's a quote from your last post: "You must be testing for image quality etc?"  You are 100% correct in your assumption.  Testing image quality on canvas become very expensive.  I've done a lot of work on this subject and I have found that the Enhanced Matte profile renders an almost exact match to the Canvas profile when actually printing on Canvas.  There is a very slight correction factor that I use once I get the results I want on the Enhanced Matte.  This correction of course is applied in Photoshop, since I print mostly from PS.  Of course you must also know that I am printing on Matte Canvas.  Obviously the Enhanced Matte profile would not work very well at all with a Gloss Canvas.  In the printer driver you can of course choose whatever printer profile you want and then set the media type to something completely different.  They are independent of one another.  For example, when I print on Ilford Gallerie Smooth Pearl I use the Ilford printer profile but then I set the Media Type to Epson Premium Glossy, following Ilford's recommendation.  Another example - when I first started printing on Canvas the manufacturer suggested using the Epson Watercolor Paper Radiant White profile, since they didn't yet have a profile of their own that I could download.  So this procedure is certainly nothing new.  In the printer driver I also create Presets for every paper type and situation.  That way I don't have to go through all of the steps that are involved in the driver every time I make a print.  The Paper or Canvas Preset contains all of that information.  I don't know which App you are printing from, but if it is PS then Presets are a must as far as I'm concerned.     

Now to address the fact that I do indeed test for image quality on EVERY image file I print.  Just a little bit of history here.  For more than 35 years I have been doing custom darkroom printing for a variety of photographers and certainly a variety of work.  EACH AND EVERY "negative" had to be tested before a final print was made.  Even then, there were often times when the full print showed areas that required more work, so back to the darkroom.  Of course with digital it's a whole different ballgame, and I can say without any reservation that I do NOT miss the darkroom at all, EVER!  However, I will also say that no matter how well my display is profiled and calibrated, there is no way that I would go straight to a final full sized print without testing a section of the image first.  Wasting paper and ink is not my idea of efficiency or cost effectiveness.  With a well calibrated display and the proper approach to soft proofing the number of tests can usually be reduced to one or two, but on more challenging images there's no guarantee.

Now I'll try to capsulize my comments somewhat, since I feel I might have muddied the waters previously by offering too much information.  I have found that as long as I have set the Media Type in the driver to Canvas and the Paper Type on the printer control panel to Canvas I have never had a problem with image length.  As a matter of fact, it's always about a 1/16" longer than the image size I have created in PS and I am NOT adding any % to the image length at all.  Personally I think that's pretty close.  Use whatever printer profile you wish, but as long as these two settings are correct you shouldn't have a problem.  If this procedure doesn't work for you then it's my belief that you are doing something different in the driver or on the control panel. 

And again, on the 9900 the Paper Feed Adjustment will NOT fix this problem!  That did work with the 7600 and I believe one of the later models, but not on the 9900.  This has been substantiated several times on other forums.  I had tried that initially, but to no avail.  At one point I had the setting up as far as +70 and it made absolutely no difference, so don't even bother with it.  Leave it at "0" and use the driver and control panel settings I have already mentioned.  They definitely do work!

Gary   
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Gary N.
"My memory isn't what it used to be. As a matter of fact it never was." (gan)

daveao

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Re: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2010, 10:43:24 pm »

Thanks Gary. Very helpful. I will be re-looking very carefully at my setups to see where I may be missing something. Dave
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Pete @ Code Ice

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Re: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2011, 10:40:40 pm »

Just thought I would add our experience of this issue using an Epson 9900, Breathing Color canvas and printing through Qimage.

Printer control panel is set to "Canvas".

The profile for BC canvas recommends Media Type- Watercolour paper_Radiant White which we duly set. On a 110cm x 77cm image the canvas print length printed at 76cm.

Did a test on Enhanced Matte paper using exactly the same settings and the print length was 77cm.

Did a second test, on paper again, but this time changed Media Type to "Canvas". Print length came out at 78cm!

Therefore I assume that the 9900 driver introduces a compensation factor for canvas that is applied to the print length only. Which then implies that the issue is related to an inherent characteristic of canvas media.

Although BC recommended WC_RW as a "Media Type" setting for their canvas, in our case using a 9900 it was obviously advantageous to change this to "Canvas". We also could not discern any change in print quality with either "Media Type" setting.

No changes to Paper Feed Adjustment or any other driver settings.

As a previous post said - on a 9900 set "Canvas" for both Media Type and Printer Control Panel. Solved our issue. 8)

Pete
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daveao

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Re: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2011, 02:06:05 am »

That is great Pete. This was the solution I had really hoped for but was still getting inconsistent results and was wasting too much paper. I decided to just add 1.15% to my length setting with canvas and now seem to get the proper length. This is not an elegant solution but I am thrilled to get the length I desire so am not going to complain about it. In the future if I am asked to make a print where the length is not critical I may continue to experiment with the printer settings to see if I can stumble across the right settings but for now I am just doing a little math calculation and then re-setting the length in Photoshop.

Dave
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eheffa

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Re: Print length when printing canvas on Epson 9900
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2013, 01:07:31 pm »

Thank you all for your helpful posts on this issue.

I've wasted a lot of canvas & ink producing prints that don't match my pre-made stretcher bars.

-evan
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