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Author Topic: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?  (Read 18072 times)

KirbyKrieger

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Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« on: December 21, 2010, 07:36:55 pm »

Hi.  Is there any way to require user input/confirmation when the Epson 3880 switches from Matte to Photo-black (and back)?

My network keeps failing, and after each failure I have to delete and re-install the Epson printer (I'm on OS X).  This entails cussing and frustration, at which point I have twice now overlooked the change in the default ink specification and have for no reason sent what I intended to be a Matte-black job to the printer as Photo-black.  I print using matte-black exclusively, but have used about 40% of a Photo-black cartridge (and wasted some expensive paper) just from mis-fires (the possibility that I am an idiot has occurred to me).  Is there any way to put in something like an "Are you sure you want to change from Matte to Photo-black?" warning?  (I print from Aperture.  Aperture allows one to specify the print settings for a paper, but the paper settings are in the OS X dialog.  After deleting a printer, this defaults to a Photo-black paper.)

Thanks.  Easier, simpler solutions are of course welcome.

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2010, 09:24:30 pm »

I'm on a Win7 PC and use Lightroom.  If you change over the ink cartridge using the hardware button (see page 111 in the manual) it should stay on the matte setting when you power down and power back up, this should be independent of the driver.  Can you hard wire the printer into your computer and bypass the network problem? 
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JohnHeerema

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2010, 12:49:47 am »

This is certainly one of the annoyances of the Epson 3800/3880. As far as I know, there is no way to prevent accidental black switches, except for a discipline of constant vigilance when you send print jobs to the printer.

An awful lot of people have complained about auto ink switching on this printer. Unfortunately, Epson has not responded to those complaints by providing a way to disable auto ink switches, or even displaying an "are you sure you want to change from matte  black to photo black?" dialog before the dreaded auto-switch. Widespread speculation has it that this is not an accidental omission on Epson's part, seeing as a round-trip pair of ink switches costs you about $5 of their ink.
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hsmeets

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2010, 03:13:09 am »

Hi.  Is there any way to require user input/confirmation when the Epson 3880 switches from Matte to Photo-black (and back)?

My network keeps failing, and after each failure I have to delete and re-install the Epson printer (I'm on OS X).  This entails cussing and frustration, at which point I have twice now overlooked the change in the default ink specification and have for no reason sent what I intended to be a Matte-black job to the printer as Photo-black.  I print using matte-black exclusively, but have used about 40% of a Photo-black cartridge (and wasted some expensive paper) just from mis-fires (the possibility that I am an idiot has occurred to me).  Is there any way to put in something like an "Are you sure you want to change from Matte to Photo-black?" warning?  (I print from Aperture.  Aperture allows one to specify the print settings for a paper, but the paper settings are in the OS X dialog.  After deleting a printer, this defaults to a Photo-black paper.)

Thanks.  Easier, simpler solutions are of course welcome.

Not intended as a smart-ass answer but why don't you fix the failing network, you are now trying to manage a knock-on effect.
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Rhossydd

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2010, 03:21:54 am »

If you change over the ink cartridge using the hardware button (see page 111 in the manual) it should stay on the matte setting when you power down and power back up, this should be independent of the driver. 
That doesn't sound right. Are you suggesting that the printer will then ONLY ever use MK until reset from the front panel regardless of driver instructions ?
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Randy Carone

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2010, 07:36:14 am »

"Widespread speculation has it that this is not an accidental omission on Epson's part, seeing as a round-trip pair of ink switches costs you about $5 of their ink."

This seems to me to be a rather "paranoid" statement. Do you really think that Epson engineers ways to piss off users so they can sell $3 worth of ink (this is the cost of a round-trip from MK to PK to MK)? I must be out of the loop 'cause I have never run across this "widespread speculation".
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Randy Carone

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2010, 09:01:32 am »

That doesn't sound right. Are you suggesting that the printer will then ONLY ever use MK until reset from the front panel regardless of driver instructions ?
I probably was too quick to post.  The basic problem is that the default in the driver software is the PK ink and one of the gloss papers (ultra premium luster but can't sure and I don't have LR open right now to check).  The manual suggests doing the ink switch over via the control panel as I noted but if a fresh driver installation has to be done each time the network goes down (and this is a point I also don't understand as I have a general Epson printer on a home network and each PC has the driver information loaded so if the network did go down, one would not have to reinstall).  You are correct that the driver would reset the printer if the MK ink was pre-selected.  I know that LR preserves printer settings as presets when they are established.  I presume that if the printer had to be deleted and reinstalled that one would lose these settings as LR would not recognize the newly installed printer (though I cannot be sure of this and don't want to test it on my machine).  As I see it the OP has three possible solutions:  1) fix the network so that it doesn't fail; 2) hardwire the printer into the Mac that he is working with on photo editing; or 3) (and least expensive) print out a warning to check the software settings and tape it to his computer so he remembers to double check in case of a network failure.

I'm glad I am on a stable Win7 PC these days!!!
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MHMG

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2010, 09:39:42 am »

One of my greatest sources of irritation in digital printing is printer dialogue box settings that don't stick after you've set them. Many times it results in a blown print. The 3880 raises the bar one notch for lost time and materials.  In the six months that I've owned this printer, I've had at least a half dozen or more unintended ink switches. In my case it stems from the driver's media setting not sticking for whatever reason, and it can occur even when I've invoked the "use last settings" preset in the driver menu. The driver defaults to Premium Luster which in turn takes my 3880 off on a joy ride to switch from MK to PK black. I have to wait that cycle out and then switch it back.

You'd think Epson's software guys could add a small amount of code that gives a message saying "Do you really want to switch inks?" along with an option to cancel. How hard could that be? I doubt Epson is really trying to piss its customers off, but that does seem to be an unintended consequence of this printer's  auto switching implementation.

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NikoJorj

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2010, 09:49:22 am »

Do you really think that Epson engineers ways to piss off users so they can sell $3 worth of ink (this is the cost of a round-trip from MK to PK to MK)?
Well, if they didn't, they'd have given the printer another print head, wouldn't they?
 ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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Rhossydd

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2010, 09:56:23 am »

One of my greatest sources of irritation in digital printing is printer dialogue box settings that don't stick after you've set them.
On Windows systems you can set your own default preference by going to 'printer preferences' for a printer from the 'device and printers' menu, choose whatever defaults you want, then close the dialogue and settings stick to become your new default.
Qimage also will also save and recall a specific set of printer settings.

Not sure if any of that is possible on Macs though.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 10:19:45 am »

On Windows systems you can set your own default preference by going to 'printer preferences' for a printer from the 'device and printers' menu, choose whatever defaults you want, then close the dialogue and settings stick to become your new default.
Qimage also will also save and recall a specific set of printer settings.

Not sure if any of that is possible on Macs though.

That has been a lifesaver for me too with the HP drivers. They often fall back to the default. By changing the default to the most common used setting like "CM by application" I reduce the errors. Printing shortcuts saved in the driver are additional remedies. However Qimage doesn't have that much control on the Z drivers though, better on Epson and Canon drivers.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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MHMG

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 11:08:24 am »

On Windows systems you can set your own default preference by going to 'printer preferences' for a printer from the 'device and printers' menu, choose whatever defaults you want, then close the dialogue and settings stick to become your new default.
Qimage also will also save and recall a specific set of printer settings.

Not sure if any of that is possible on Macs though.

"Last used settings" should function just like a user customized preset, i.e., precisely hanging onto the last user-made choices in all dialogue boxes. Since I do so much testing and experimentation in the print work that I do, I'm constantly adjusting settings and also using multiple printers thus multiple print paths. That makes my work flow much more advantageous to rely on last used setting rather than creating huge numbers of preset configurations.  However, it never occurred to me that a custom built preset would be any more sticky than the last saved settings preset.  I should probably check it out.
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NikoJorj

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 12:15:43 pm »

However, it never occurred to me that a custom built preset would be any more sticky than the last saved settings preset.  I should probably check it out.
Another solution : the Lightroom print presets do remember the driver settings (which is quite handy).
It works on OSX as well, I think.
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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peterpix

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2010, 01:24:35 pm »

In Aperture, you can save settings for a particular type of paper and the proper ink and one can have a number of these special settings for different papers or where the paper is loaded.
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Peter Randall

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 03:24:14 pm »

Another solution : the Lightroom print presets do remember the driver settings (which is quite handy).
It works on OSX as well, I think.
Niko, I'm not sure that this applies if the printer is uninstalled and reinstalled.  Would LR recognize a new driver installation as the "old" one?
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NikoJorj

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2010, 03:50:17 pm »

Niko, I'm not sure that this applies if the printer is uninstalled and reinstalled.  Would LR recognize a new driver installation as the "old" one?
I was suggesting that for Mark ; you're right, for the OP this may not work (or might if the printer keeps the same name?).
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Nicolas from Grenoble
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JohnHeerema

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2010, 05:37:55 pm »

I can't think of any reason why a network failure should require you to re-install the printer drivers. Without knowing more about what has been specifically happening to you, my conjecture is that the problem is not the printer drivers themselves, but network addressibility of the Epson 3880.

In my own experience, the Epson printers are more consistently addressible if you use Bonjour than if you use straight TCP/IP. Even though Bonjour is designed to accommodate IP address changes, if the printer is set up to acquire an IP address via DHCP, I would suggest considering a static IP address (remember that it must be in the same sub network as your Mac, unless your network contains a router will route between the addresses).

You can change the default settings for the printer, which will cause all new print jobs to use those settings.

I personally find that building printer presets is a great help in preventing unintended ink switches. That way, you can just pick one of your presets, and all of the settings, including the MK/PK setting will get chosen.

One of the "gotchas" with presets, is that if you select a preset, and then change something (say the paper type, which will affect whether PK or MK will be used), and then try to print another print, it will still have the same preset selected .... but you changes will NOT be applied (you'll get the straight preset values). The way to deal with this is probably to create another preset if you find yourself consistently changing something in one of your existing presets.

Again, just a suggestion, but I would consider making your presets specific to the 3800/3880, so that you don't see them if you've selected a general-purpose network printer.

Unexpected ink switches remain one of the annoyances of this printer, and none of what I've suggested is likely to eliminate them altogether.


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JohnHeerema

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2010, 07:02:14 pm »

"Do you really think that Epson engineers ways to piss off users so they can sell $3 worth of ink (this is the cost of a round-trip from MK to PK to MK)? "

This is a good question, and I believe that in order to understand Epson's lack of response to user complaints, it's helpful to understand the environment in which software is developed. I don't want to take a lot of time to talk about this in detail, but it's often helpful to understand that a corporation like Epson is not a unified entity, but that different groups and individuals within Epson are apt to approach firmware from different perspectives.

In the beginning, we usually see a focus group. At some point, the idea of auto swithing would have been proposed, and endorsed by enough people to get onto the feature list. The firmware developers would have created the auto-switch function, and the testing group would have gone through a test script to confirm the tests passed. The quality of the test scripts is highly dependent on the corporate culture.

Once the printer has gone into production, changing a feature takes a different route. The corporate culture has a great deal to do with how customer complaints are addressed. It's often thought that Japanese companies pretty much focus on the domestic market when determining whether or not there have been any customer complaints. Whether this is true or not, there is effort and cost associated with investigating a customer complaint. Unless there is a good tracking system in place, the company can easily receive thousands of complaints about a single issue, without it ever being perceived as being a problem.

Once a problem has been confirmed, or the behaviour of the software has been identified as being undesirable, the problem has a chance to be identified as a feature request. At this level, it generally doesn't take much to kill a change request - and yes, at this level, I can very easily envisage a manager type quashing a feature which will cost money to address, and which will reduce consumable consumption.

Even if a change request does get past all of the change approval processes, the "maintenance programmers" are generally much less competent than the primary developers, and may not have the ability to make even minor changes to the firmware. Again, this is highly dependent on the corporate culture, but few of the Japanese hardware companies have really strong software development expertise.

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Schewe

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2010, 07:19:05 pm »

"Do you really think that Epson engineers ways to piss off users so they can sell $3 worth of ink (this is the cost of a round-trip from MK to PK to MK)? "

This is a good question, and I believe that in order to understand Epson's lack of response to user complaints, it's helpful to understand the environment in which software is developed. I don't want to take a lot of time to talk about this in detail, but it's often helpful to understand that a corporation like Epson is not a unified entity, but that different groups and individuals within Epson are apt to approach firmware from different perspectives.

All this aside, as a user of a 3800 and now a 3880, I can honestly say I've NEVER had the printer switch photo/matte inks arbitrarily...seriously, it's never happened to me. Yes, the vast majority of time I print with photo K inks to the 38/xx printers (I do switch back and forth on my 9900 and occasionally with the 3880). But if the user has an inkset currently set, the only way way I know to switch the inks is either to select a matte K media (such as one of the clearly matte K papers) or to force the ink switch at the printer.

I've deleted and re-added printers numerous times. When I do that it always picks up the "current" inkset (whether MK or PK).

I don't know what the OP's true issues are...it seems the real problem is his network not the printer. But to start talking about Epson intentionally doing this to spill ink is simply stupid. Really? You think Epson has the time (and the engineering staff) to intentionally do stuff like this? Do you wear tin foil over your head to cut down on radio transmissions form other universes? Are the black choppers coming to get you?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 07:57:47 pm by Schewe »
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JohnHeerema

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Re: Prevent Epson 3880 from switching blacks?
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2010, 07:55:16 pm »

As Mr. Schewe colorfully points out, I don't see anyone at Epson deliberately setting out to design a feature which will waste ink.

Rather, if it turns out that a feature which was designed with the best of intentions, turns out to have adverse consequences for some people, there are a lot of potential roadblocks in the way of implementing a corrective change.
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