empty Epson 11880 cartridges are not empty

[feppe]

Scientific examination includes rigorous assessment and a requirement to prove claims and to clarify any ambiguity.  Your statement was ambiguous in my opinion and I have explained why.
...
Gut feelings are good and well, but they have no place when making absolute claims.

While you are right about scientific method, we have to take the business of selling printers and ink into account here. Mr Dinkla showed that Epson for generations has had ink carts which are not empty although their printers claim so, and doesn't compensate for that "shortage" unlike at least one competitor. Therefore it is prudent to think that behavior has continued with Epson's current line of printers, unless there is opposite proof.

Also, if Epson did change their policy regarding this, I'm positive their marketing department would declare it with bold red letters - 2% or so more ink is big savings for their customers in the long run!

[Farmer]

Randy - that's good advice.  It was never my intention to "slam" Ernst and of course we're all aware that he's a very good contributor to this board and elsewhere.  I, on the other hand, am essentially unknown and must accept a commensurate level of acceptance (or lack therefore).  That said, I feel that there have been numerous times when claims about "old" technology have been made without clarification that there is no evidence that they do or do not apply to current matters.  I'll leave it at that as you suggest.

Fippe - there are many reasons why a company might not make much of it.  As Ernst said, even with the older carts the problems were substantially addressed.

[location]

This isn't actually a direct remedy, but we have been accepting 'empty' 11880 carts from generous folks here at our small artist book printing operation called Location Books in Minneapolis. We're even willing to pay for them and/or pay shipping-- we have some 4880s that we've been refilling using the leftovers from the 11880. If you know of anyone with empty ones, please pass the word on-- thanks, Scott

[fetish]

Scott I have a whole bunch of 'empty' 11880 carts here. kept them for some reasons unknown. lol
lemme know your address and i'll try to find out how much it costs to ship the lot to you from sunny singapore.

[location]

Great, thanks-- worth a shot. It's 1618 Central Ave NE suite 227, Minneapolis, MN 55413, and scott@locationbooks.com

[Sven W]

Scott I have a whole bunch of 'empty' 11880 carts here. kept them for some reasons unknown. lol
lemme know your address and i'll try to find out how much it costs to ship the lot to you from sunny singapore.

Don't you have a re-cycling system in US?
Here in Europe, Epson has such a system, called Epson LFP Collection Programme.
It's only for LFP, and you just put your empty (well) carts i a big box, when it's full, call a given logistic company,
they pick up the box and you get a new, empty one.
I can also let other users put their empty carts in the same box.
And the best thing; it's all for free!


/Sven

[bossanova808]

Having just cracked about 10 'empty' (not just at the won't clean point, but registering fully empty) 700 ml cartirdges from an Epson 7900 and 9900, I have measured anywhere from a minimum of about 30 to over 100ml of ink easily extractable from the supposedly near empty sacks.

They are not even close to empty when the say they are, often.

Honestly I don't care in that I have long since costed based on real world ink usage over time, cleans, non-empt carts and all, but I was still a little surprised and miffed when over 100ml came out a cartrdge.  That's 1/7th, and a pretty crazy waste/cost.  I jsut try not to think about it!

[Farmer]

Having just cracked about 10 'empty' (not just at the won't clean point, but registering fully empty) 700 ml cartirdges from an Epson 7900 and 9900, I have measured anywhere from a minimum of about 30 to over 100ml of ink easily extractable from the supposedly near empty sacks.

They are not even close to empty when the say they are, often.

Honestly I don't care in that I have long since costed based on real world ink usage over time, cleans, non-empt carts and all, but I was still a little surprised and miffed when over 100ml came out a cartrdge.  That's 1/7th, and a pretty crazy waste/cost.  I jsut try not to think about it!

You say "near empty".  Why would you stop using them before they registered as completely empty, as they are designed to do or did you not mean that and they had reported as empty?

I've never seen a *900 series cartridge with 100ml of ink left in it.

[Ernst Dinkla]

Don't you have a re-cycling system in US?
Here in Europe, Epson has such a system, called Epson LFP Collection Programme.
It's only for LFP, and you just put your empty (well) carts i a big box, when it's full, call a given logistic company,
they pick up the box and you get a new, empty one.
I can also let other users put their empty carts in the same box.
And the best thing; it's all for free!


/Sven

Sven,


Does it also collect the full maintenance tanks?


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

[Farmer]

http://cartridges.planetark.org/

There's nothing stopping you from using it for maintenance tanks, too, at least here.

[bossanova808]

You say "near empty".  Why would you stop using them before they registered as completely empty, as they are designed to do or did you not mean that and they had reported as empty?

I've never seen a *900 series cartridge with 100ml of ink left in it.

Actually I said 'just cracked about 10 'empty' (not just at the won't clean point, but registering fully empty)'

These were identified as completely empty.  Most produce 'only' 30 to 50ml, but I had one empty cyan and one yellow that produced 100+ mls.

[dgberg]

Do you mean when saying  "registered as fully empty" that the empty cart stopped the printer in mid print?
That's the only empty I know of.

[Farmer]

Actually I said 'just cracked about 10 'empty' (not just at the won't clean point, but registering fully empty)'

These were identified as completely empty.  Most produce 'only' 30 to 50ml, but I had one empty cyan and one yellow that produced 100+ mls.

And then you went on to say "near empty sacks" which is why I asked for clarification.

The other issue is that unless you weighed and measured the cartridges to begin with, you don't know how much they started with.

Of course it's possible you had a problem cartridge, but it's also possible that it was overfilled more than normal.  If you only measure one side of the equation, you can't get a useful result

[Sven W]

Sven,


Does it also collect the full maintenance tanks?


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

Is that an ironic question?
They only recycle the carts. But it would be nice to recycle all the inks in the maintenace tanks!
How about dark brown ink for sale? 
/Sven

[bossanova808]

And then you went on to say "near empty sacks" which is why I asked for clarification.

The other issue is that unless you weighed and measured the cartridges to begin with, you don't know how much they started with.

Of course it's possible you had a problem cartridge, but it's also possible that it was overfilled more than normal.  If you only measure one side of the equation, you can't get a useful result

Agreed.  As I said, I don't actually mind a great deal, I've done a lot of calculation over the years and am confortable with the cost of the inks in terms of what they produce.  But I was still surprised at the volume.  But most are more like 30 to 50 mls.  I assume these were glitches but will be keeping my eye on it a bit.

(I meant the 'near empty sacks' that Epson claim they are...are not really 'near empty'.)

[Ernst Dinkla]

Is that an ironic question?
They only recycle the carts. But it would be nice to recycle all the inks in the maintenace tanks!
How about dark brown ink for sale?  
/Sven

No, not ironic. I actually didn't expect that Epson recycled the inks of "empty" declared cartridges either. I doubt that happens but you made me wonder about that too. Sheds yet another light on what is ink economy in Epson's eyes :-)

No, when Epson started to chip the maintenance carts of the 9600 and asked a price for a new one I asked then whether that included a green disposal system by Epson for the old maintenance tank. There wasn't a system like that, the user had to dispose the maintenance tank himself in a proper way. That many decided to reset the chip and fill the tank themselves with pads was actually greener than the Epson system and they paid less. But with a recycling system for carts active one would think that Epson could take the maintenance tank in as well. As I understand it the maintenance tank chips on the recent models can not be reset anymore. I don't think that the man in charge of EU cartridge rules in Bruxelles has ever heard of LF printer maintenance tanks.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst Dinkla

Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop
http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.html

[Sven W]

I don't think that the man in charge of EU cartridge rules in Bruxelles has ever heard of LF printer maintenance tanks.

LOL

/Sven