33mp Leaf vs. Canon in video mode for staged shots

[Neil Folberg]

Hello,

I am beginning a large book project which will involve movie style sets on location with a fair amount of action and many people on set to make still photographs. The goal in each case is one great photo. I have a Leaf Afi-ii 7, 33mp which shoots pretty fast and the quality is of course great. I will not be hopping around a lot with the camera - camera viewpoints will be carefully chosen, action will be choreographed and directed.

I am being asked to consider shooting with a Canon D5 in 10 fps video mode in order not to miss any lucky happenstance with all the action. I wonder what the resolution on a file like this would be relative to my Leaf? How would it look in a large format book with great reproductions relative to what I might get with the Leaf? And how would exhibition print quality compare?

I suspect that I'm better off with the Leaf on all counts - it won't be 10 fps, but the image quality will be so much better - any thoughts on this? My feeling is that you just have to make it happen right and shoot a lot.

Neil

[Doug Peterson]

Hello,

I am beginning a large book project which will involve movie style sets on location with a fair amount of action and many people on set to make still photographs. The goal in each case is one great photo. I have a Leaf Afi-ii 7, 33mp which shoots pretty fast and the quality is of course great. I will not be hopping around a lot with the camera - camera viewpoints will be carefully chosen, action will be choreographed and directed.

I am being asked to consider shooting with a Canon D5 in 10 fps video mode in order not to miss any lucky happenstance with all the action. I wonder what the resolution on a file like this would be relative to my Leaf? How would it look in a large format book with great reproductions relative to what I might get with the Leaf? And how would exhibition print quality compare?

I suspect that I'm better off with the Leaf on all counts - it won't be 10 fps, but the image quality will be so much better - any thoughts on this? My feeling is that you just have to make it happen right and shoot a lot.

Neil

Neil I am a bit confused by the question. You refer to a 10 frame per second video mode on a Canon D5. AFAIK No such thing exists.

You're either referring to a Canon 5D Mark II (aka 5DII) or a Canon 1D III.

The 5DII can capture video at 30 fps and 24fps. I am not aware of any 10fps video mode on a 5DII.

Or you mean a Canon 1D III which can shoot stills at 10fps (10mp raw files) for a burst of (something like) 3 seconds.

Either way the question is a very easy one to answer.

The resulting frames from either of the above camera systems will not even be remotely similar in quality when used in a large format book or exhibition. The file produced by the Leaf system will be night-and-day different in terms of pure resolution, color fidelity, tonal smoothness, dynamic range, and - well frankly - any measure image quality standard.

Now that said, everyone agrees that mediocre content with great image quality is useless compared to great image content with mediocre image quality. So if you think (or if your own pre-production testing shows) that you can't reliably capture the content you need using the Leaf then that over-rides any image quality concerns.

However I think you will find, as many of our Leaf/Phase clients do, that the system is more than fast and responsive enough for such shoots and the image quality is more than worth the occasional "missed" frame, especially if you're in a shooting scenario where the action is not unique (e.g. sports or photojournalism) and you can repeat the action until you get it just right (and composite together similar frames on occasions where you cannot get all elements of the frame perfect in one shot).

As always only your own real-world-testing can tell you the definitive answer as to which system will be the best for your needs. But the short answer to your specific technical question is "no - not even close".

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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[Neil Folberg]

Hello Doug,

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I've never used the Canon, I was repeating what I was told about it. But the answer gives me what I needed to know to address the suggestion intelligently - and I am not eager to use any other camera besides the Leaf unless there is a very compelling reason. And I think there is not in this case - I'm in control of the action and it is repeatable.

best wishes,
Neil

[Doug Peterson]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I've never used the Canon, I was repeating what I was told about it. But the answer gives me what I needed to know to address the suggestion intelligently - and I am not eager to use any other camera besides the Leaf unless there is a very compelling reason. And I think there is not in this case - I'm in control of the action and it is repeatable.

No problem. Good luck, and if it's not a rights/use issue or other privacy issue make sure to post some of the results on the appropriate thread here! 

[pixjohn]

If you have a budget, you could have multiple leaf cameras  to fire with a delay on each camera. I would think the Leaf set up would poduce a much nicer large format image.

Best thing to do is a test.

[michaelnotar]

 a still frame grab from a video is no where near the quality of a dslr jpg which in itself is no where near a mf file.

[ziocan]

Hello,

I am beginning a large book project which will involve movie style sets on location with a fair amount of action and many people on set to make still photographs. The goal in each case is one great photo. I have a Leaf Afi-ii 7, 33mp which shoots pretty fast and the quality is of course great. I will not be hopping around a lot with the camera - camera viewpoints will be carefully chosen, action will be choreographed and directed.

I am being asked to consider shooting with a Canon D5 in 10 fps video mode in order not to miss any lucky happenstance with all the action. I wonder what the resolution on a file like this would be relative to my Leaf? How would it look in a large format book with great reproductions relative to what I might get with the Leaf? And how would exhibition print quality compare?

I suspect that I'm better off with the Leaf on all counts - it won't be 10 fps, but the image quality will be so much better - any thoughts on this? My feeling is that you just have to make it happen right and shoot a lot.

Neil

Probably who came up with the 5d 10 fps idea, does not have a clue of what they are talking about.
Other posters have already answered why it does not work and either exist as an option.
Stick with your Leaf and you will not regret.

Eventually, the only viable alternative that can come close to that "idea", would be a Nikon D3x or a Sony a900. Both can shoot at 5fps with 24mp files that can be enlarged considerably and hold great quality. Yet I do not see the need of shooting fast bursts on a staged set where you can repeat and control action.

In any case thinking of a large movie set with actors and extras who are staging choreographed action and images that need to be enlarged considerably, I would only think of a file as large as I can get. Those are the kind of situations where MF digital shine. If the budget allow, I would even rent a P65 and find a body that can run it with Zeiss lenses, which are the closest thing to cinema look I can think of in MF lenses world. For what i remember, having used it only once, the P65 reload pretty fast. It would make me feel like shooting a movie with a 70mm camera.

[bradleygibson]

You've already made your decision but to add to what michael said, a video frame grab will look terrible by comparison:

* the 5D2's full HD (1080p) video is only 2Mpxl per frame--compared to the 33Mpxl Leaf back you have, this is no comparison
* also, every video frame in the 5D2 is compressed pretty significantly by photographic standards (think how slightly too much JPEG takes away the fine details of your image).  Because each frame is only visible for such a short time, it's not uncommon for considerable detail to be discarded.  And unlike JPEG stills, you cannot turn down the compression to improve the quality of the video compression on the 5D Mark II--it's essentially fixed.
* under continuous light, your shutter speed for video will be quite a bit slower than it could be with strobe for stills, opening up the potential for motion blur

Hope that helps, in case you get any pushback.
-Brad

[Neil Folberg]

Hello Ziocan,

Speaking of larger files like the Phase 65+, there is the option of the Leaf Aptus 10 or 12 80mp, but I wonder: with the longer read/write time per image and more demanding requirements and larger files, perhaps this would be a disadvantage relative to the Leaf 7 for a book size reproduction?

Though it is not strictly speaking a requirement for this project, I keep thinking of large exhibition prints ....

Neil

[bradleygibson]

The II-10 shoots at 1fps, generating 50-60MB/s of data.  Current CF cards are at 90MB/s and can certainly keep up with this data rate, so the higher resolution needn't slow you down...  In fact, with my Sandisk Extreme IV's are "only" rated at 45MB/s and I've never had to wait for them in my II-10.  The back seems to have enough buffering for reasonable bursts.