How good exactly were the good old days?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Yes, it's just one long slow descent into despair and loneliness, as the body ages and suffers before finally giving up, alone in a gutter, penniless, ignored, and broken...

I felt the same until I read an article in The Economist magazine, titled: "Age and happiness - The U-bend of life - Why, beyond middle age, people get happier as they get older". The whole article is in the December 18th-31st 2010 edition, and here is the link (though not sure if you could access it if not a subscriber): http://www.economist.com/node/17722567.

Here is the gist: "People are least happy in their 40s and early 50s. They reach a nadir at a global average of 46"

And what would economics be without a graph :-)

[degrub]

hmmm...corresponds pretty well to getting the kids out of the house.

[bill t.]

Interesting, but they missed an important point.  We just start forgetting that we're not happy.

[degrub]

oh yeah, forgot about that..

[Rob C]

I wonder what on Earth the graph people were measuring to come up with that result?

Maybe it was based on pension expectations of the professional classes (whatever they are) but I would be amazed if health, sex, job satisfaction or anything much else increases as you get older.

Perhaps they consulted Marshall McLuhan.

Rob C

[degrub]

health - it could be worse
sex - don't remember - wasn't that BK 
job satisfaction - have one, i think.

Frank

[feppe]

I wonder what on Earth the graph people were measuring to come up with that result?

Maybe it was based on pension expectations of the professional classes (whatever they are) but I would be amazed if health, sex, job satisfaction or anything much else increases as you get older.

You're looking at happiness from a very different perspective as happiness researchers (yes, that's an entire field of study). You're talking about objective values of health, sex (amount and quality I assume), job satisfaction and other factors, whereas happiness studies generally look at subjective, self-reported happiness, which is an all-encompassing datapoint taking into account all factor's of one's well-being. Just because an investment banker earns millions and has sex with supermodels doesn't mean that he necessarily is happier than a single mother of three living in Belarus.

There are several indices, but almost all of them have very surprising countries in the top 10, examples here (Costa Rica) and here (Nigeria). World Values Survey is perhaps the most well-known and has a good historical dataset which shows global happiness is increasing despite what the resident curmudgeons would have us believe.

[fredjeang]

You're looking at happiness from a very different perspective as happiness researchers (yes, that's an entire field of study). You're talking about objective values of health, sex (amount and quality I assume), job satisfaction and other factors, whereas happiness studies generally look at subjective, self-reported happiness, which is an all-encompassing datapoint taking into account all factor's of one's well-being. Just because an investment banker earns millions and has sex with supermodels doesn't mean that he necessarily is happier than a single mother of three living in Belarus.

There are several indices, but almost all of them have very surprising countries in the top 10, examples here (Costa Rica) and here (Nigeria). World Values Survey is perhaps the most well-known and has a good historical dataset which shows global happiness is increasing despite what the resident curmudgeons would have us believe.

This is a great statement.

Happiness has very little to do with the things that we have. It is first and for most an inner feeling, it comes from inside, not from outside. What can come from outside are just limitated temporary satisfactions. But when the "drug" is not disponible any more, we end desperate.

It's from inside-out, and in our culture, we where trained that it is from outside-in. Big mistake...

[RSL]

It's from inside-out, and in our culture, we where trained that it is from outside-in. Big mistake...

Fred, You're absolutely right. But in many places that's a fairly recent development. My generation was brought up to believe that although "things" are fun, they don't bring happiness, and that in the end you make your own happiness.

[Justan]

Here is the gist: "People are least happy in their 40s and early 50s. They reach a nadir at a global average of 46"

It’s pretty easy to generalize a couple of models to show why some are happy later in life and why some aren’t.

As example, if one were to look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs one would find a hierarchy of behaviors and goals that are typical of many successful people. Successful people are the models upon which Maslow based most of his studies.

In contrast, if one were to look into Adler, one would find a pattern of behaviors that are typical of many who are unhappy. Not surprisingly, as that the types that Adler studied.

Accordingly, both point to a key detail to being happier at any time but particularly later in life, which is to spend a fair amount of time in comfortable and positive social settings. Nearly everyone gets a lot of self-worth by being in and contributing in a positive way to groups. And of course the types of social interaction one participates in, plays a huge role in one’s sense of self.

Of course, most are neither highly successful nor complete failures and due to this (and all things psychological) ymmv.

[Rob C]

You're looking at happiness from a very different perspective as happiness researchers (yes, that's an entire field of study). You're talking about objective values of health, sex (amount and quality I assume), job satisfaction and other factors, whereas happiness studies generally look at subjective, self-reported happiness, which is an all-encompassing datapoint taking into account all factor's of one's well-being. Just because an investment banker earns millions and has sex with supermodels doesn't mean that he necessarily is happier than a single mother of three living in Belarus.

On the contrary; as I am considering how I feel as the marker, as the measure, that's being as subjective as is possible, and also the only measure that matters a damn to the individual. All else is futile human pixel-peeping, a lucrative game for those highly educated outwith the worthwhile and socially constructive disciplines.

Rob C

[bill t.]

Let's all take the Oxford Happiness Questionnaire!

And how's your felicific calculus?

[ronkruger]

Happiness is an attitude, mostly based in an attitude of gratitude. It's more of a spiritual than a physical thing.
I do believe this attitude is easier to obtain and maintain as one gets older, simply because you don't sweat the small stuff as much and demands upon you decrease. Living though a lot of escrement teaches you to step around it, instead of smearing it around.

[feppe]

It's from inside-out, and in our culture, we where trained that it is from outside-in. Big mistake...

That's exactly it. The Chinese knew over two thousand years ago that material goods don't bring happiness (Tao Te Ching), and this has been reformulated over the ages by numerous philosophers. I'm not exactly sure when, how and why western societies flipped the meaning - and it has already migrated to other cultures, including China itself.

Incidentally, there have been several recent articles and studies on how experiences contribute to happiness vs material goods. It seems that experiences generate more happiness, confirming Lao Tzu's philosophy. Perhaps the most telling point is that experiences increase in value over time (you reminisce about the good, and forget the negative experiences or make fun of them), while goods decrease in value (they break, show wear and tear, and better alternative goods become available).

I wonder how photography and photographs fall into that spectrum. For us as photographers photos themselves are in big portion experiences although they are physical goods. Cameras, on the other hand, are mostly pure goods - but I'm sure everyone here has a camera they feel passionate about even though it might be outdated and does not function properly

[Rob C]

Happiness is an attitude, mostly based in an attitude of gratitude. It's more of a spiritual than a physical thing.
I do believe this attitude is easier to obtain and maintain as one gets older, simply because you don't sweat the small stuff as much and demands upon you decrease. Living though a lot of escrement teaches you to step around it, instead of smearing it around.

I wonder.

Having got to the 'older' part of life, and having known many before me achieve that too, I can't wholeheartedly agree with you. In fact, I believe you tend to worry a lot more because you have developed a sense of responsibility which extends further from yourself than it ever did when you were young; you take on a lot of things that you could simply walk away from when younger. I think you will see it more openly with women: a mother is always a mother, no matter how old the children, a father probably less overtly so.

There is a tendency to equate worry with money, that's only one factor amongst many. I'm not rich but neither am I starving; I worry. I've known multi-millionaires personally (you think I owned those boats featured in my site?) as family friends for many years. They worried as much, if not more than did I.

I do believe that it may be more a matter of predisposition, just as talent is, which Alain isn't sure to accept or refute in his current article.

Rob C

[Alan Klein]

I'm not a photography professional.  But, I was in business for 20 years and lost it 12 years ago along with whatever assets the lawyers left me.  It was hard, and I was angry and more than a little lost.  I floundered for a couple of years and then wound up in all places working for the government.  It's not so bad.  I go home at night and don't worry about making payroll or paying suppliers.  I'm busy doing other things - photography for one.  I'm retiring soon.  And if the Fed doesn't print too much money and make my pension, Social Security and dollars saved worthless, I might actually be able to spend some enjoyable time photographing even more.

What does this have to do with the good old days?  Don't know.  Just thought I'd share my thoughts.  Good luck in whatever you do.  Nothing is forever and things have a way of working out.  Alan.

[Rob C]

I'm not a photography professional.  But, I was in business for 20 years and lost it 12 years ago along with whatever assets the lawyers left me.  It was hard, and I was angry and more than a little lost.  I floundered for a couple of years and then wound up in all places working for the government.  It's not so bad.  I go home at night and don't worry about making payroll or paying suppliers.  I'm busy doing other things - photography for one.  I'm retiring soon.  And if the Fed doesn't print too much money and make my pension, Social Security and dollars saved worthless, I might actually be able to spend some enjoyable time photographing even more.What does this have to do with the good old days?  Don't know.  Just thought I'd share my thoughts.  Good luck in whatever you do.  Nothing is forever and things have a way of working out.  Alan.

Trouble is, the bankers have alread done it for us - you don't need to wait until retirement. State pension and interest on savings were going to be the magic potions to that secure future; interest is currently an insult whilst banker bonuses are still obscene. It's not amusing to realise that everything you withdraw to keep paying the bills isn't going to be replaced, that even if things do finally improve, you will have lost so much capital that past comforts or certainties have gone forever. In fact, there's then the belief that those who never saved a cent were the ones with the good sense: what you didn't save they can't steal and when you hit the goo-goo stage of life, they keep you in a home for free, whilst if you were dumb enough to save, they then steal your house to keep you in that same playpen as you pay for yourself and your companions too.

Someone here on LuLa wrote something about fairness...

Rob C

[Justinr]

I was never really taken by the pensions and savings schemes that were always being urged upon me in my earlier years even when good friends absolutely insisted that it was the only responsible thing to do and shook their heads in dismay when I declined their advice. Now the very same people are moaning about all they money they have lost and how their retirement is not going to be as particularity early or as carefree as they fondly imagined. Nope, we spent our money on buying a nice house with a bit of ground thinking that when the time comes we can downsize and realise a surplus to live on. Ha! what's a house in Ireland worth at present? Yep, probably less than the average pension fund but at least we have hope of recovery.

On the other hand I have a brother who has worked hard and done very nicely thank you out of pensions, savings and investments, but that's only because he sells them.

[feppe]

In fact, there's then the belief that those who never saved a cent were the ones with the good sense: what you didn't save they can't steal and when you hit the goo-goo stage of life, they keep you in a home for free, whilst if you were dumb enough to save, they then steal your house to keep you in that same playpen as you pay for yourself and your companions too.

Someone here on LuLa wrote something about fairness...

While there is some truth to savings vs going into debt, it is also tinted by the current economic climate. I started this thread with the view across generations, not some discrete point in time. The despair in 1920s and 1930s was much worse than it is now, and we are much better prepared to weather the storm than back then.

As for savings, inflation has been near zero for years in much of the western world, so those who've saved haven't lost nearly as much as those in debt or investing in stocks. So those who saved are better off. Saving (investing) in stocks and bonds is inherently risky, and most (all?) western countries require disclaimers whenever one buys them because of that. One has to only look at recent history (1999/2000) to see how real the risk is.

And fairness has very little to do with life.

[Rocco Penny]

My 91 year old Grandmother is at the center of our family's holiday celebrations.
She said that things were harder in the 30's depression because of what they didn't have.
She said they didn't need stuff so much because what she had at least would be well cared for.
Simply put they valued the needs of everyday existence.
A hot bath for my Mother consisted of boiling a few big pots of water a few times a week if she was lucky
Relationships then too would have proved the difference between success and failure.
In a world prone to obsessiveness in thought and deed,
one must choose the light.
I'm going to say the good old days are as good or bad as you remember them.
Certainly the bar is set to some absurd standard that will make you a ruin by comparison to the ideal.
Just remember,
even morons have successes
(sorry just thought the humor would be appreciated)