Prints too dark

[BobShram]

Thanks Erik and Thomas, I have a lot to learn. It would seem to be a softproofing problem, I have got the prints back to normal, more by luck than judgement. My monitor was off by a small amount as my spyder2pro. Am checking out the Andrew Rodney article and finding that I can understand what is being said, a slow process for this old head.

[AndrewKulin]

Quite the varied input.  Thank you all.

I did forget to mention in my original post that my Eye-One Display was purchased in May 2005 so about 5.5 years old for me - and if how long it sat in a box unopened subtracts from its useful life then it's even older.  So perhaps the unit is dying slowly?  Have also posted a screen capture of my calibration for the monitor

I'll try and respond to a few of the other questions/suggestions in order received:

Sven:

How about your viewing light?  <-- approx. 40 Lux, 2600 K according to my Eye-one match ambient light check.  For what it is worth, I then redid the ambient light check placing the eye-on display facing my monitor (white screen) very lightly touching - got measurements of 156 Lux, 5400-5500 K - probably a bogus thing to do but as noted earlier my monitor was allegedly calibrated at 90 cd/m2 and 6500K

My checklist for evaluating prints:
• Correct calibrated (good) monitor (I also check with the Udac analysis tool) <-- good question - for now I have to assume so
• All settings in the driver checked <-- not sure which driver you mean
• The best profile for the paper and printer <-- profile is from Ilford for the 3880/and Galerie Gold - best I can do with what I have - assume it is pretty good
• A well known testimage to print <-- tested the image from Andrew Rodney - color checker as printed (luminance wise) looked spot on to the real thing.  Most, but not all colours were accurate too
• A good viewing light (Solux or GTI/Just) close to the monitor, matching the whitepoint and brightness of the monitor<-- that is unfortunately not the case (40 Lux, 2600K) but prints also look dark in other rooms and in natural daylight
• Softproofing in PS activated <-- Yes

Andrew Rodney:  Had not seen that article before - thanks for the link

Aristoc:

You should not be trying to adjust your llumninace with the RGB settings at all !!! By the way I also calibrate to 95 luminace ( you mentioned 90) because I work in a dim room.  <-- I am adjusting the RGB to get to my target white point of 6500K, I am using brightness to get to my target luminance - with my Dell and a DVI connection, it cannot let me adjust contrast (default 50)

I have read a ton about calibrating and I believe that when  you first calibrate, you need to start with the default settings. Don't the default settings of the RGB start with 100/100/100 ? <-- according to my Dell Manual the default RGB setting is 37-34-27

If they do, then y ou are way off. Start a NEW cal. with the default settings of 100/100/100. <-- I tried this tonight as an experiment.  Set RGB to 100-100-100 and what a disastrous looking colour balance on my PC.  If you can imagine with the Gretag software, to adjust display to desired white point setting it displays the RGB setting as 3 bar graphs.   If you consider each scale to range from 0 to 1 the optimal point for each colour is at 0.5 and you aim to get each colour to that point (using your OSD controls fro RGB), and once all three are in the middle your colour temp should match your targeted colour temp).  So at 100-100-100 settings using my OSD, the red channel was at about 0.6 on the scale, green at about 0.7, and blue was at 0.0 (white point temp was 5300K).  Blue would only start to move towards the centre as I drastically reduced the Red and green and essentially end up right back at 20-20-30 gets me to the 6500K

[RHPS]

How about your viewing light?  [/b]<-- approx. 40 Lux, 2600 K according to my Eye-one match ambient light check.  For what it is worth, I then redid the ambient light check placing the eye-on display facing my monitor (white screen) very lightly touching - got measurements of 156 Lux, 5400-5500 K - probably a bogus thing to do but as noted earlier my monitor was allegedly calibrated at 90 cd/m2 and 6500

40 Lux is very low for viewing prints! If your monitor is set to 100cd/m2, then to match the white of your print to the white of your monitor you need an illuminance at the print surface of more than 400 Lux. 40 Lux may be a good ambient level for editing on a monitor but for evaluating prints you are virtually in the dark. You really do need a decent viewing light, placed so that it doesn't cause glare on your monitor, to get anywhere near a match. For what it's worth, I find that the color temperature of the viewing light is less important than the illuminance that it provides. The eye adapts to different color temperatures more easily than to different luminance.

As you probably guessed, measuring the ambient level in front of your monitor was not a meanigful exercise.

The viewing conditions are often neglected in these discussions about "dark prints". Your correctly profiled printer should give prints that look good under the right illumination. Under "armchair" conditions they will usually look too dark. If you want prints that look good in your armchair then you probaly need to apply a curves adjustment to lighten up the mid-tones before you print.

You have a means of measuring ambient levels, although you seem to suspect your i1Display. If you want to compare your monitor luminance with your effective print luminance directly, you may find the method described in the note below useful. Not a precision measurement, but it gives you a very good feel, as a photographer, for what's happening.

www.hermitage-ps.co.uk/monitor_luminance.htm

[Aristoc]

luminous landscape has recommmended a viewing lamp in the past and it is inexpensive and still available. Called Ott light. About $60 CDN.


http://www.vistek.ca/store/ProPhotoLightboxViewing/221585/ottlite-13-watt-blacktask-lamp-wswivel-base.aspx

40 Lux is very low for viewing prints! If your monitor is set to 100cd/m2, then to match the white of your print to the white of your monitor you need an illuminance at the print surface of more than 400 Lux. 40 Lux may be a good ambient level for editing on a monitor but for evaluating prints you are virtually in the dark. You really do need a decent viewing light, placed so that it doesn't cause glare on your monitor, to get anywhere near a match. For what it's worth, I find that the color temperature of the viewing light is less important than the illuminance that it provides. The eye adapts to different color temperatures more easily than to different luminance.

As you probably guessed, measuring the ambient level in front of your monitor was not a meanigful exercise.

The viewing conditions are often neglected in these discussions about "dark prints". Your correctly profiled printer should give prints that look good under the right illumination. Under "armchair" conditions they will usually look too dark. If you want prints that look good in your armchair then you probaly need to apply a curves adjustment to lighten up the mid-tones before you print.

You have a means of measuring ambient levels, although you seem to suspect your i1Display. If you want to compare your monitor luminance with your effective print luminance directly, you may find the method described in the note below useful. Not a precision measurement, but it gives you a very good feel, as a photographer, for what's happening.

www.hermitage-ps.co.uk/monitor_luminance.htm

[Sven W]

The viewing conditions are often neglected in these discussions about "dark prints". Your correctly profiled printer should give prints that look good under the right illumination. Under "armchair" conditions they will usually look too dark. If you want prints that look good in your armchair then you probaly need to apply a curves adjustment to lighten up the mid-tones before you print.

The ISO 3664 standard for viewing light is maybe too hard this time, but the recommendation is 2000 Lux, +/- 500 Lux, for
prints and proofs. And illumination is more important than the color temperature.

/Sven